Well BW is right once again, thanks BW for giving me the heads up in one of the past threads. Upon getting my tag freed up I thought I would go one step further and remove the brake drum and inspect the brakes. I did notice he brakes on the tag had been working as it lock up on loose gravel one day, however I jacked up the tag with the wheel off and had my wife operate the brake peddle while I watched for movement etc.. Everthing seemed to moving correctly however I could still move the brake drum. So I started with it. The biggest pain in the *** was, or is the 5 tapered flat headed bolts that are used to keep the brake drum centre. I could not get them out, no way , no how. So I ended up cutting them out with the hopes of using a easy out to remove the remaining portion of the bolt. Well there is no way , no how to get that portion out either!! tried heat etc and have had lots of pressure on the easy out, enough that I was lifting the tag axle with the wrench attached to the easy out and boucing it. So I will drill those pesty little things out and have to re-tap the hub. I guess this is more of a report that anything but if someone has tips I'm all ears. I noticed on Gumpy's site he mentioned it was only the heads that were rusted on his, I guess I'm not that lucky. Oh the good news is that the brake hardeware simply needed a good cleaning and it all works fine , lots of shoe there. It also gave me an opportunity to get new grease though the pins etc without having all that excess grease in the drum.
Grant
Drill them out with reverse (left turning) drill bits. Chances are good they will come out as you get through them.
Len
Thanks Len , the only reverse bit I could find in town is a 3/8, which I think may work ,(1/2" bolts) At least for 4 of them , haha I have one drilled out too far for the 3/8 bit so I guess that one may get a re-tap. I also went to find new bolts and the only place I can find them was from MCI, and I had to buy a bag of 100, I thought maybe at most a bag containing a set for one bus, but nope, 100. haha, at least they had them to me over night with no extra charges. Pretty good service, now if they'd only come remove my bolts!
Yeah, I just worked on the bus of a friend from Edmonton last weekend. One of his slack adjusters had fallen off the S-Cam shaft, and we had to remove a drive drum. He had flat headed screws with 6 point allen holes in them. Even though there was clear evidence that they had antiseize on them, we could not budge them. I tried a center punch, with no luck, and finally got the torch out. I heated the drum around the screw, and then heated the screw directly till the head was nearly red hot, and then sprayed a long shot of WD40 directly on the head. They all turned out with just the allen wrench then. We were able to salvage them and reuse them. No damage to the threads, and the two I had taken the center punch to cleaned up.
Oh, BTW, sometimes you can put 5 lugnuts on backwards against the drum and torque them down and the retaining screws will then be loose enough to get out. Didn't work for me this time, though. On drives, you have to put a larger nut on the stud for a spacer and then preferably use old inner nuts to torque so you don't damage the seat.
Makes sense , thanks Craig, Guess I'm past the point of no return this time , but sure will remember for next time. This has got me thinking I might tackle all of them. The rest seem to be working fine , but it sure wouldn't hurt to at least clean up the brake hardware and get some new grease though everything, then I can use up some of the bolts MCI sent me haha.
I had the same problem on my 4104(same hubbs and drums), I pilot drilled the bolt then larger close to the od of the nut. Easy out worked then.
john
In the future, try a bus repair garage for bolts like that. They'll probably sell you just the amount you need, not 100 of them. C&J Bus Repair in Bloomington, MN (952-881-0034) probably has them in stock too and I am pretty sure they would sell them by the piece.
You can blow the heads off the bolts with a torch and not hurt the drum then remove the drums and soak the bolts with parts blaster and remove the bolts with vise grips I do it with no problems
good luck
Wow, bag of 100...that s a cryin' shame. Most HD truck & bus parts houses have access to that kinda hardware and will be glad to sell you 5 at a time.
Maybe list them for sale somewhere nearby (maybe even here, maybe the other place). You are not the only one who can use them.
All the tricks listed above usually work, but sometimes things are really stuck!
I initially had trouble on my MCI 8. But then I found a technique that worked 100% of the time.
Heat the screw red hot with a small nozzle on a torch. While still hot, use a 1/4" (or 1/2") impact hammer with adapters to get down to the slotted screw size. The screw will come out very, very, easily IF, and only IF you remember and follow the rule - righty tighty, lefty loosey. In other words, counterclockwise.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
Hello Busshawg.
Bring that bag of fasteners to Arcadia, you'll sell them all no problem. I'll stand in line too!
For our viewers, the "heat wrench" is critical to wheel end dis-assembly.
As the other posters have noted, you need a torch to heat up the drum retaining screws in order to get them out in one piece. Oxygen/acetylene, hard core, all the way. Propane plumbing torch is not enough.
Also note, the longer you leave them, the worse it gets, another reason for some periodic preventive maintenance dis-assembly of your wheel end components. It comes down to this: you take them apart so that they will be able to come apart.
The wheel end components are subjected to high temperatures regularly. These conditions promote the retaining screws to get well and truly tight/corroded with the drum/hub, anti-seize helps, but is not enough. It would not be wrong for the brakes/drums to see 600 degrees Fahrenheit on a highway speed heavy braking slow down or stop. Sudden traffic slow down, short exit ramp, all manner of heavy braking events will approach those temps.
And up through a damaging 800 degrees and beyond if the brakes have been used improperly while attempting to control mountain descents.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Grant,
How much do you want for some of those retaining screws? I might take some off your hands to have around for the next time I ruin one taking my drums off.
Let me know here, or send me an email. If you make it to Moose Lake, bring them with you.
craig
I have pulled lots of drums on 04,s and MCI 9,s Never used any heat. I drilled the impossible screws out and used a easy out. The replacement screws are readily available at any bolt and screw company, you can purchase 6 or 50.
john
Quote from: johns4104s on September 11, 2009, 04:20:00 AM
I have pulled lots of drums on 04,s and MCI 9,s Never used any heat. I drilled the impossible screws out and used a easy out. The replacement screws are readily available at any bolt and screw company, you can purchase 6 or 50.
john
I gotta believe that using heat is a lot easier than drilling and using an easy out. And it saves you having to buy new ones.
I'm with Gumpy on heating them and using the wheel nuts to take pressure off the drum while removing the retainers.
But I have also had the stubborn ones that refused to corporate with me and then used Luverbus's solution "blow the head off and use vise grips on the remaining part"! Works for me!
By the way I once got in a pinch and needed new retainer screws and didn't have time to get them from MCI (also had been informed of the 100 per/pkg deal), so I went to Fastenal and bought some of the "Allen" head screws (still had to purchase a whole box of 100, but hey I use them all the time. Or at least used to back when I worked on MCI's regularly!)
I also make sure I clean the threads with a tap and then put anti-seize in the holes as well as the the screws and the beveled part of the drum too! (Next time they come off much better!)
FWIW ;D BK ;D
By the way Gumpy I still have some left over (Allen head screws), and we have a grill (several actually) and a Tyson plant just up the road! ;D (come on down to the rally and I'll fix ya right up with the Allen head screws and plenty of chicken to cook and plenty of space to cook it! Shoot how much more could ya ask fer?!) ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on September 11, 2009, 06:28:49 AM
By the way Gumpy I still have some left over (Allen head screws), and we have a grill (several actually) and a Tyson plant just up the road! ;D (come on down to the rally and I'll fix ya right up with the Allen head screws and plenty of chicken to cook and plenty of space to cook it! Shoot how much more could ya ask fer?!) ;D
That's a darn decent offer, but I'm pretty sure I have a conflict with the weekend of your rally ::)
Maybe you could get some of those chickens, pack them in dry ice, throw in a bunch of those screws, and overnight them to me ;)
has anyone just drilled the holes out and put longer screws/blts in with lock nuts on the back of the hub?
Can you reach the inside to hold the nut when the wheel end is assembled?
You might also try welding a 1/4" or 5/16" nut onto the screw head. Tack it and then weld inside the nut. The welding will heat up the screw, and then you can put a box end
wrench on it, or socket and breaker bar and try turning it out.
Great idea Craig, however I ended up drilling and retapping, worked out alright. Just have to be very carefull to get teh hole centre. Thanks for all the help and ideas guys. I know I will be up agaist teh same with teh others so I will definitly use your advice for teh others, thanks
Grant
I could really use some of those screws if anyone could sell me some....PLEASE :)
-Dave
Well I have extra Dave, if you want to send me your mailing address etc. in a PM I will get you some.
Grant
See? I told you they would move fast!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Your right BW, ha maybe I'll order another bag.