Today i applied gas to a brand new 1974 mfr date Dometic. It is a virgin and still had all the cardboard stuff and tape for shipping. What a find! It is almost exactly identical to the model it is replacing and that one still works really really well. Slid right into the hole....no problem.
I lit it off a couple hours ago and when I went to check it it was hot enuff inside to have sex. Oven like temp. I cut the gas and left the doors open. Earlier today I lit it off for a short time and the freezer was getting cold and I thought I had a good test.
Anybody have any ideas? A refer is kind of required by both Mama and me. Bummed!
John hot under the collar
Hi John,
Yea, the amonia is so badly Jelled, that it's going to take many fire up's to get it flowing again.
You may even have to flip it up-side-down right after a burn.. "Warm"
Good Luck
Nick-
Well, the Dometic dealer just answered: Bad cooling unit....replace the refer. How could I have ever guessed?
John
I've seen cooling units for around $450.00. That's a lot lower then a new refer. Good Luck, TomC
I think i would try Nick's trick first before i just ran out and spent any money. :)
Ed,
I agree with you completely. I wrote a lengthy reply to Nick thanking him for his GOOD NEWS. I thanked him repeatedly, mind you. I have not a clue why it wasn't posted or where it went. It must be my computer cause I know there would be a ruckus if others were having this problem. I drafted all my mail for this board on WordPerfect for a while and all seemed to be going well and now the gremlin is back. Happened a couple times last week.
Nick,
Again....I thank you for your expert opinion and sharing it. I hope I don't look ungrateful. I answered your post right after you posted it.
John the hopeful
Hi John,
Please.... stop thanking me! :D
Really, that's why I'm here, I get more satisfaction out of it then you guy's do... Ha Ha ;D
Oh, leave that baby up-side-down for a couple days.... you can even warm it some with a tourch. "carefully"
Nick-
Nick,
OK! Grump gruff growl.....warm it with a torch, where? I can't post pics...not smart enuff.
I heated it once today and I think it didn't get as hot as the first time. What beats me is when it was first fired up since its mfr in 74 it started to get cold. Bummer!
I will heat it and let it cool ten cycles before I invert it after heating it....sound good?
John
Ok John,
Maybe you better just use a hair dryer.... :D
Heat the steel condencer in the rear of the refrig. Especially the bottom. Or, maybe the top if it's up-side-down.. ???
Nick-
Well, I called around again today to just collect opinions while I am doing what Nick told me to do.
One very nice guy that comes from a reputable shop told me that if my freezer compartment temp went above ambient that the only way that could happen is if I lost the "HYDROGEN" form the cooling circuit. I can't question that hydrogen is a gas component of the cooling circuit/process. I can question that hydrogen could leak out and I would not loose the rest of the gases.
Everybody balked at heating the coils with a torch. Nick has the last word though. Nobody thought that I could recover the unit but one, and only one, thought it would not be a complete waste of time to invert. That guy said I would have to get the coils really hot before I did that and that the time it took to remove the refer would allow the coils to cool too much. Maybe!!!
I plan to run her out of the enclosure and sitting free. I will insulate the fins with a fiberglass bat so it gets really hot. Then turn it upside down. From what Nick told me about heating the coils with propane torch....will I still have to keep the coils hotter/longer than the fiberglass will accomplish? The rear bottom coils, the ones that go thru the gas heater, get hot from top to bottom. My freezer is NOT getting as hot as it had been....good sign??? Almost room temp after a hour cook and the lower coils were hot.
This is like a mystery novel...to me anyway.
John
Hi John,
Picture the amonia refrigerant looking just like candle wax! That's pretty much the consistancy of it at room temp but yellowish.
Now when the box sits for long pieriods of time, the amonia seperates from the waxey binder. The wax gets harder and the
amonia gets more liquidfied. Now, you are only trying to bind the solidified wax back to the amonia mixture it once was.. ;)
That wax is stuck in the far corners of the tubing system. Remember that the cycle feeds the freeezer first, then flows through
the refrigerator loop before returning to be reheated.
Hope this helps
Nick-
John I don't think Nick's credentials need my support but FWIW the best RV technician I know uses exactly his method to revive dead RV fridges. The only thing my buddy Al would add to Nick's advice is to whack the coils while they are hot. Don't whack them hard, just whack them a bit.
Nick,
That helps with my understanding. For sure I was following your advice to the letter....and will. If this thing ever works, you take the bow.
Bob,
That seems like it might help and would not hurt a thing.
One of the things that binds me up is that the refer that this one replaces had the same cooling unit and it worked after 35 years. 1300 or 1400 for the same model today. That is beyond sucking. These people must be price fixing. Tell me they have 1,400 dollars in this little box off a production line....no way. These things have gone up as fast as Med Insurance. What do you bet the majority of the mfr cost is spent in Mex? Oh well, grump grump grump.
Thanks Nick and Bob.
John
Thanks,
John
I have to believe that if RV fridge manufacturers were making big profits that more manufacturers would be looking to get into the business. Somebody would probably even make them in *gasp* China.
Cooling units are a lot less than $1300. Problems like these are why I use a compressor fridge, but who knows if a 30 year old compressor fridge would work any better if never started up after being manufactured.
Brian,
The compressor has tons of things going for it. Absorption refers are in heavy use today still. They are maint free and last forever....few moving parts. The Waste Motor Oil for fuel folks make really big chillers that handle warehouses. Many tons.
I only want the gas for convenience and dry camping advantages. I have used them for years and have not a bit of problem. What I am going thru with this puppy is different. I had heard that the Norcold did not like being left off for extended periods and a friend learned that the hard way.....$2,200 plus. I have also heard over the years that the Dometic was the most forgiving and durable of all the RV refers. My old one fired up and was making ice in less than an hour and that after being off for 4 years. Go figure.
I start my gen once a day and that is to charge two 6 volt golf cart bats. To run a compressor refer I would need a substantially bigger bank and would run the Genny longer. Actually, I often go for more than two days on a charge but I plan on Daley. I can leave for a week and all my frozen foods are still in tact when I get back. Costs me pennies to do that. To accomplish that with lectric you need to invest in gen auto start and a really sophisticated charging mgt system. Way to many points of failure and risk in the event of failure. I can't afford enuf insurance to feel comfy if going there. It isn't just different strokes, not for me anyway.
One of the reasons a guy won't start into manufacturing is a problem with "distribution" of his product. Restraint of trade is alive and well in today's markets. The Chinks might make it but who will carry their product? Camping World? Would they cross swords with Dometic or Norcold? Hardly. With the inter net things have changed dramatically and maybe we will see Chinese refers on the market. They have my vote cause I doubt the worker bees are reaping any windfall profits in this adventure and the owners are certainly outsourcing everything they possibly can and China is at the top of their list. Us Steel used to close a plant and stuff their supply line with German steel and then make a huge amt of noise in DC about the unfairness of it all. Their stock went up with their profits and then the went to the unions and as much as said "we can do that anytime we please so straighten up". The unions did and then the US Steel Korean mills came on line. Bus. is complicated, corrupt and corrupting and I learned that getting an MBA that I never put to use.
Rant, huh? I know.
John
Dometic or Norcold,
If they were to be left on all the time, they would last forever..?? The cause of falure is mostly rott of the condencer.
Kept warm, they would never rott!
Nick-
Well, I have been running the thing till it gets hot and then letting it cool. Done that 10 times. New indications are that where the freezer used to get up to 130 degrees in an hour and a half it now only rose to 86 degrees. No where near a freezer but we are moving in the correct direction.
Tomorrow will get her removed from her hole and heated up and inverted. Two cycles of that should bring her back if she is coming. Nick and a local RV shop "expert" are the only ones that think this may work. I have called maybe 15 other shops and they all said "trash it" and they knew I was not local to them. Oh well, hope you guys are listening. My old RV repair guide said that the Dometic would come back almost always. Anyway, it has been an adventure and a learning experience. Not to mention the entertainment value to the board in general.
John the hopefull
Quote from: JohnEd on September 11, 2009, 10:39:11 PM
Well, I have been running the thing till it gets hot and then letting it cool. Done that 10 times. New indications are that where the freezer used to get up to 130 degrees in an hour and a half it now only rose to 86 degrees. No where near a freezer but we are moving in the correct direction.
That's what I call looking on the bright side. Another way of putting that would be that you used to have a pretty decent heater and now you have neither a heater nor a fridge. ;D
Bob,
Thanks! :P ::)
John
I have a 20 y.o. Norcold that wouldn't cool properly. A few weeks ago I posted my problem on this board. Nick suggested that I turn it upside down for a day or so(just what I didn't want to hear). So I removed it and turned it upside down and tapped the coils/boiler with a rubber mallet. I think it now works better than it EVER did. I was reluctant to remove it because my nook was in the way and I had to remove it to remove the fridge. But the upside, besides a better working fridge, was that I replaced the nook with a small table and chairs. Much more room and my wife LOVES it.
Thanks for the advice,Nick, Dr. Dave and others.
And now that Nick has suggested that a refer left running will never rot I'm considering doing that as well. My Norcold has gas/12v/110 v. Perhaps I can leave it running on low on 110 v/
Does that sound feasable?
Fred Mc. GM PD4106
Fred,
I had a 1974 mfr. year Dometic in my RV that was working very very well. Since 1990, when I bought her, she has gone as long as 4 years with the fridg being turned on. It NEVER failed and in minutes after lighting it off there was frost on the freezer floor. Over the years I had heard all these tales about them never coming back. I had even left it run off level for a day by mistake. It wasn't very cold when I got back but an hour down the road it was doing fine. I have often heard that the Dometic was the truly durable/strong unit. I recently read some horror stories about Dometics but thats a new development...for me.
Nick told me today that my assumption that the RV refer was identical to the commercial units was not correct. Seems that Dometic uses a "wax" as an additional substance to the basic three of Hydrogen, water and ammonia.
I took mine out and am running it with a long hose. A friend that has been in the RV bus. for 30 years told me to "roll" the refer to move the bubble. I can only assume that he is speaking from experience. The most often recommended "fix" I have heard is to lay it on its burner side for 4 hours. I am working my way up in the fixes from the easiest to the hardest. So far I have run it in place with the coils blocked and that didn't cure the problem although it modestly changed some of the symptoms. Today I laid it on it side for 4 hours and had a huge change but still no fix. It no longer heats the freezer coils but they stay at ambient or a few degrees below. Tomorrow I will try the side method again only because it is the easiest and Wifey can help. After that I will get some muscle in here and turn it upside down and abuse it with a mallet.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Much appreciated.
John