So after reading about Jim Shepard's issues, we have decided to change coolant. We have been running the typical green car stuff. From what I have read, it is high time to switch it out to the heavy duty red stuff. I will make my pilgrimage to Central power first thing tomorrow morning.
So a couple of things. I think that Detroit Diesel is the only ones that carry the right stuff. Correct?
What about additives? I would assume that I would get that from them too.
Should I flush the system too? If so, how?
Where should I dispose of it?
Thanks.
God bless,
John
Here is another product that is OK for DD.
http://www.fleetchargeantifreeze.com/finalcharge.htm (http://www.fleetchargeantifreeze.com/finalcharge.htm)
It has been about $12.50/gal at the distributor.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
John,others sell the stuff it is a precharged extend life heavy duty antifreeze tons of suppliers for it DD is going to charge you about 26 bucks a gal and it is made by Zerex don't add any chemicals till you need it.
Go to your local wholesale oil Co and save some bucks 400 bucks for antifreeze then disttilled water runs into money you won't need chemicals for a while.
I run the green heavy duty in my 8v92 with chemicals and RO water because extend life in green is no longer available on the market FWIW don't waste your cash on the 50/50 mix
For disposal check with a local radiator shop they take it and recyle the stuff and reuse it or save it for your Hurricane heating system it doesn't care what color it is
good luck
Okay, let me see if I understand.
Don't get it from Central Power, get it from a oil wholesaler. Dilute your own, 50/50, but don't buy pre-diluted. Don't bother adding chemicals right now.
Did I get it?
So it doesn't matter what color it is right? I just need to get Zerex, heavy duty coolant. Right?
Thanks for the help.
God bless,
John
Check out Jim Shepard's article on diesel engine coolant in the Sept. Bus Conversion Mag.
JC
As for disposing of it, I do my oil changes on our thee vehicles...Grease Monkey takes the used oil...check with them, they probably take the anti-freeze too.
Jack
John, you can buy any brand but I would stick with the majors and I think all the pre charged extended life antifreeze are the same color now.
I never used anything but Texaco heavy duty pre charged extended life in my equipment for years.
Just don't think DD,Cat, or Cummins is the only place to buy antifreeze.
I am just trying to save you some money without causing any harm to the engine.
The distilled water thing I have a problem with and that is because the chemicals in the antifreeze protect the engine from rust and corrosion but yet you use distilled water so the manufactures can call their product long life and pre charged.
If you don't use distilled water with extended life pre charged antifreeze it will get so out of balance you can never get right.
If you bought a green heavy duty truck antifreeze from a dealer and not some place like Auto Zone I would check the balance with test strips and run it for another year before changing over to extended life.
The 60, 53,71 110,92 and 149 series all used the green stuff for years before the pre charged red stuff hit the market Cummins was the only one that had a colored antifreeze YMMV
good luck
JC, I emailed Mike to see if I could get a E copy. We will see if I get it in time.
Jack, Thanks for the idea. I will check it out.
Clifford, So I think I got it. Any heavy duty, extended life, precharged (what does that mean? precharged), anti-freeze will work. Always use distilled water (we haven't I hope that we haven't damaged anything!!!). And green anti freeze is okay (but is red better, or does it not matter).
So my questions are. What does pre charged mean? And is green okay, or is red better ( I want to do the best).
God bless,
John
I run the Shell Rotella ELC ( Red Stuff ) In all my vehicles including the Bus with my 6V92 and have had no problems with it. My Buick says DEX-COOL on the system and that is red also. I checked at the time and the Rotella ELC was within the listings as acceptable. That may have changed, Don't know..
I used the 50/50 mix and bought a couple of cases for the bus easier than
trying to calculate ratios in a cooling/heating system of unknown size.
Works for me... Might work for you, Don't know.... TMC RP 329 specs 8) 8)
Detroit Says;
53, 71, 92 Ethylene Glycol and Water + DDC POWER COOL
Corrosion Inhibitors1
Commercial Equivalent of DDC POWER COOL Fully Formulated TMC RP-329 Type A
Antifreeze and Water
Propylene Glycol and Water + Fully Formulated TMC RP330 Type A
Corrosion Inhibitors Antifreeze and Water
Ethylene Glycol and Water + NOAT Inhibitors DDC POWER COOL Plus
Water Only + Corrosion Inhibitors2 Water + DDC POWER COOL 3000
Water Only + OAT Inhibitors2 Water + DDC POWER COOL Plus 6000
Shell Says;
Shell Rotella® ELC Extended Life Coolant/Anti-Freeze is a "fill for life" ethylene glycol based coolant for heavy-duty diesel, gasoline and natural gas powered engines. Shell Rotella® ELC contains a unique extended life carboxylate inhibitor system and nitrite / molybdate as secondary Shell Rotella® ELC meets all the requirements of CAT EC-1, TMC RP 329 and RP 338. Shell Rotella® ELC is available as a concentrate and as 50/50 and 60/40 volume mixtures of Shell Rotella® ELC with deionized water.
John, you will not find the extended life precharged in the green any longer go with extended life that way you need not change it for 5 or so years if you keep the balance right.
The green now has to be changed more often I change mine every 2 years when I remember but just cannot bring myself to pay the price for the extended life antifreeze and distilled water it may out last me lol
Precharged antifreeze has the chemicals already added it is easier to keep balanced than the green stuff I use
good luck
John, I hope they get the email version to you before you buy. Bottom line, there is a heck of a difference in Automotive (non-diesel) antifreeze and antifreeze formulated for diesel use. The major difference is that automotive antifreeze has a fairly high level of phosphorous to address issues with aluminum engine components. Per a DDC document I cite in the article, here is their position:
"All antifreezes and coolants containing phosphorous should be avoided. Drop-out, overheating, and water pump seal failures can result from use of coolant or inhibitor packages based on phosphate."
Concerning precharged, here is a quote from the article that briefly describes the additive concept:
"Traditional coolants use supplemental coolant additives (SCAs) containing nitrites for cylinder liner protection and other materials to protect the rest of the cooling system. The materials in the SCAs break down as they defend the metal surfaces, so they must be replaced continually. The rate of replacement is directly related to how hard the engine works. "
As many have already stated, you have lots of choices, but the one thing you want to make sure of is that the antifreeze meets ASTM D-6210. Every label I have seen lists the ASTM specification it meets. BTW, the ASTM spec for automotive antifreeze is D-3306. You want to avoid that type.
Hope that helps.
Jim
That helps a lot.
Clifford, thank you for the responses. They have been great!
Jim, thanks for chiming in. I hope that I can get the email version, but it isn't looking like it will happen, before I get the coolant. I can't wait to read the article. I just hope our engine is okay (this is a time when ignorance is bliss, and knowledge is sickening :() ;D.
Thanks a lot. I now know that I want Red, extended life, pre charged, heavy duty coolant. I will see about where I get it. Thanks for the info.
God bless,
John
Jim, I received the E copy (thanks Mike!). Great job on the article, thanks.
God bless,
John
So I decided to go with the Detroit power cool (precharged, and extended life). I paid $11.60 a gallon, which looked to be what other stuff would have cost.
Clifford, thanks for explaining everything to me. That really helped my understanding.
Jim, that was a good article. I am glad I got it in time.
God bless,
John
John, what color is the Detroit power cool?
Purple. I didn't end up getting the extended life. They didn't have it concentrate, so I have purple (with additives), and a lot of gallons of distilled water.
God bless,
John
Quote from: rv_safetyman on August 23, 2009, 08:14:44 PM
... The major difference is that automotive antifreeze has a fairly high level of phosphorous to address issues with aluminum engine components.
That depends on the brand. The standard Prestone automotive coolant today, now yellow in color, has no Phosphorous or Silicates. One of the great things about the chemical safety legislation of the 80s is that you can look up the composition of any of these products simply by requesting the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that every manufacturer must provide. Most even have them available on the web.
Quote
As many have already stated, you have lots of choices, but the one thing you want to make sure of is that the antifreeze meets ASTM D-6210. Every label I have seen lists the ASTM specification it meets. BTW, the ASTM spec for automotive antifreeze is D-3306. You want to avoid that type.
However, note that many products are multiply labeled. D3306 is OK so long as it also carries D6210 or D4985.
I use the stock Prestone stuff, which is listed to ASTM D4985 ("Standard Specification for Low Silicate Ethylene Glycol Base Engine Coolant for Heavy Duty Engines Requiring a Pre-Charge of Supplemental Coolant Additive") in addition to D3306. I also use test strips supplied by either Detroit or Cummins (the latter will sell them in smaller quantities, so they don't go bad before you can use them all), and add SCAs as needed using Detroit's SCA package.
FWIW.
Since you've already done so much research on this, perhaps you can comment on the differences between D4985 and D6210 with respect to two-stroke engines. My reading of Detroit publication 7se298 would suggest either is acceptable so long as there are no phosphates or silicates.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean on August 26, 2009, 09:05:34 AM
Since you've already done so much research on this, perhaps you can comment on the differences between D4985 and D6210 with respect to two-stroke engines.
OK, I found it... D6210 is for coolants made from virgin, recycled or reprocessed stock and are fully formulated (SCAs included), whereas D4985 is for coolant made only from virgin stock and requires SCAs to be added.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Sean, I find the the ASTM 4985 green stuff meets DD,Cummins, Cat, Mack, Volvo,and Freightliner trucks specs for non aluminum radiators and engines also the automotive spec 3306.
I use the SCA filter on my 8v92 changing the filter about once a year and never add any chemicals to my system it does the job but our 8v92's are not as sensitive to cavitation as the 60 series we just have 2 inches of our liner that contacts the coolant so the green stuff works for me too and I don't use distilled water if my water was good here I wouldn't even buy the R/O for .20 cents a gal.
So many different metals in the newer stuff I guess that is the reason for all the new antifreeze and chemicals.
I think Jim is a little off saying to use only the ASTM 6210 number but if I had a 60s I would buy the 6210 per DD
good luck