So... it's "usually" a safe practice to take a slightly sulfated battery and do a "conditioning" charge on it, which consists of running a controlled current into it (1-2 amps for a car battery or up to 5-6 amps for a large deep cycle, ie my Trojan J-185's) for 24-36 hours, being careful that it doesn't get hot and doesn't run out of water.
Thus I embarked on bringing two sets of J-185's up to snuff as they've been sitting on float for a year and not quite at the specific gravity that I'd like to see.
Set #1 worked to plan, after two days the specific gravity was perfect, the batteries happy and ready to go to Burning Man to power an electric vehicle.
Set # 2 on the other hand... last night at 3am I was abruptly wakened by a loud boom. Wondering if it was me or a neighbor shooting a gun or something, I got up to see. A second loud boom occurred. So I went outside and as I was walking to my bus, a third boom, and at that point I noticed that the orange light I'd left on in the battery house was flickering.
Oh no it wasn't flickering, it was FIRE !!!
So I hauled ars to fetch my trusty CO2 extinguisher and moments later no more fire but what a frikking mess!!! One of the three batteries had done a meltdown, heavens knows why, and something caused the hydrogen + oxygen that was coming off to ignite and explode. Three times. LOUD!! Then they all caught fire.
I have a few sets of batteries that I use for the buses and electric vehicles, so a few years ago made the decision to give them their own area just for charging and storage.
Luckily I made my battery house out of concrete and sloped the floor for spill containment, which now I'm REALLY happy I did!!
All in all, some cleanup, a few pounds of baking soda, a skinned knee tripping with a heavy extinguisher in the dark, and $500 worth of batteries lost, but no real harm done. I've now safely drained what's left of the batteries so they're "disarmed", and got the acid into a safe container, and the local battery company will take them to recycle. So no biggie there either...but... WHAT A MESS !!!!
And if you've EVER wondered about the wisdom of wearing a face mask while messing with gassing batteries, you should see the inside walls and roof that got splatted with acidic goo when these babys went booom. I'm SO glad my face wasn't in the way!!!
Oh yeah... when I do this again, and I probably will, I've learned that it's a good idea to separate the batteries by a few feet.. duh....
CHeers
Another Boogie adventure safely terminated!!
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Whheeewwww. Thanks for the post. That looks rough. What a mess. I always try to wear at least safety glasses. That is why when you are jumping a car, you don't put the negative on the negative terminal. You always (if you can) put it on another metal unpainted surface to help reduce the risk of explosion.
God bless,
John
Bummer dude!
At least you were aware enough to respond in an appropriate fashion & not make the headlines, or worse, the obituary column.
Good thing you had them in your battery house & not in your bus!
Anything you would do different aside from spacing them further apart?
Would a fan blowing fresh air in have helped?
Were the batts sitting on the concrete floor? If so that's a no no, need to sit on plywood or lumber.
Glad you didn't get hurt! I never had heard of that really happening, now I have. I will be more careful from now on!
Paul
Spacing the batteries farther apart would have probably meant not all three would have burned, just the one that started it all.
Keeping batteries off of concrete is a thing of the past. When they were made with rubber cases it was an issue but these days it's no longer a no-no. http://tinyurl.com/2oqw3 (http://tinyurl.com/2oqw3)
I have no idea what sparked the fires... maybe a rat running the wires accidentally created a short... maybe just the wrong phase of the moon...
A fan? it might have helped but the "house" is completely open (no front wall) and ventilation is good. And the boom happened from within the battery case, not outside. So a fan probably
wouldn't have done much.
For me, I'm more or less done with wet cell batteries. I just changed my bus's house batts to AGM's. No more wet batteries!!
As soon as Firefly comes out with the cooooool "Oasis" batteries (hopefully this year) I'll go to them if I can afford to. If you have time for an interesting read, check this PDF:
http://tinyurl.com/9lqwpv (http://tinyurl.com/9lqwpv)
EXCITING !! they're getting closer to reality!
The last time I saw that happen was when my dad tried to jump his '49 Ford truck (6 volt) from my '55 Chevy (12 volt) and his battery was frozen. I have been afraid of batteries ever since.
Boogie,
I checked it and you are correct! At least now when someone else says it not OK to put them on the concrete I can appear like I know something with up to date information. I guess my age is showing! Now I know! I'll have to retrain my brain! ::)
I'll be quiet now. ;)
Paul
Yup, i decided that i am thru with batteries too. ALL batteries!! And how am i going to do this you ask? Simple! I am going to get a small nuclear reactor to power the bus. Pro's......a lot less weight when i get rid of the engine, tranny, and rear end. Some of that weight will be replaced by the electric drive motors for the wheels. Just haven't decided if i want 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive yet. ;D No more fuel tank to have to fill, No more house or starting batteries or solar panels or generators either. I will have all the power i want 24/7 with no noise or additional cost. In fact when i pull into an rv park i can plug in an sell my excess to the power company.! Probably be able to supply all of the power for a city the size of Omaha. :)
No more propane needed, everything will be all electric. Won't even need a hot water heater because the water will be used to keep the reactor cool. Now for those of you naysayers, the drawbacks.....ok well i might have to buy headlights more often because mine will burn with the intensity of the sun and light up everything for 5 miles. On the other hand i may not need headlights after all due to the nice glow the bus will give off. No need for nite lites or yard lites either. ;D If i get any more pets they will be easy to find after dark too. All in all a win/win situation. Look for me soon in your neighborhood and just kind of ignore those radiation warning symbols that i will probably have to have posted on the bus when you come to visit and drool over my mileage and power claims. Oh yeah, don't forget to bring your sunglasses. 8) 8) 8)
Ed, Now that is funny! ;D
I'm interested in why you conclude that the explosion happened internally within the battery? I'm not sure how this could happen, presuming that a spark shouldn't be able to occur inside the case. If this was the cause it is indeed worrying as it would seem to be something that none of the usual precautions would prevent. Such an event occurring whilst the batteries were in the bus doesn't bear thinking about.
I realise this is just speculation, but is it possible that the initial cause wasn't the ignition of hydrogen at all, but something else, such as a catastrophic internal short? I'm just thinking 'Hindenburg' and trying to avoid jumping to conclusions.
Jeremy, hoping it never happens to me.
PS. Forget the nuclear reactor idea - you just need to install a Mr Fusion unit. Professor Brown from Hill Valley, California will be able to help you out
The only time I've had a battery fmishap was jump starting a dead battery on a vehicle. I disconnected in the wrong order and the battery started on fire. It was a small flame and I just blew it out.
Jeremy,
I heard three loud explosions about 1 minute apart. When I got there, not only was everything on fire but the entire tops of two of the batteries were splattered all over the wall and ceiling of the room, and the side and 1/3 of the top of the third batt was also blown out. I don't believe that an external explosion could have done that. Likely something caused a spark, and maybe it was outside, but Stoichiometric mixtures of hydrogen and oxygen burn faster than the speed of sound, literally, and can flash back into the battery airspace easily. Once it's contained even a little bit, it goes boom. My guess is that one battery failed or something happened, it went boom and caught on fire, and that fire caught the gasses on the other two and away they went, one by one.
But who knows. I'm REALLY happy I wasn't there to watch the fireworks!!!!
I've seen a battery on an RV almost in this same condition- the owner came to me at Burning Man as he got there and asked why there was sulphur-smelling smoke coming out of his engine compartment. His alternator regulator had failed and left the alternator on "full output" which waaay overcharged the already hot battery and boiled it half dry. By the time I lifted the hood it was melting, literally. I told the guy to just close the hood, turn on the headlights and walk away for a day, and if/when the battery finally cooled off and discharged, then he could deal with it. I'm sure a spark there would have resulted in the same thing that happened to me, he was lucky.
Holy Crap!!
I'm glad you OK. I have heard the horror stories but never knew anyone that experienced it. I think I will not leave any batteries un attended during charging like I am used to. I have left them in my hanger over night charging, no more.
Thanks for posting that I am a believer.
I witnessed a battery blown about 15' into the air at a military vehicle auction a few years ago.
Two guys had a set of batteries they were carrying around to see if the MVs they were interested in buying would start. Since MVs are 24 volt they were hooking them in series. I don't know what they did wrong but I heard this boom and saw this battery soaring up into the higher levels.
The miracle was that all that happened to the guys was that one got some acid on his cotton clothes which immediately developed holes. How he kept from being blinded of badly burned I'll never know.
Gary, I have to show my stupidity here. You say just a few amps, but don't mention the voltage.
I assume you were doing was is called "equalizing" the battery and thus you were applying an abnormally high voltage. If that is correct, I am concerned.
Most of our inverters have that option. They apply a high voltage (not sure if the current is controlled). The issue I struggle with is how long you do that process. You apparently were doing it overnight.
So, the question becomes, is equalizing with an inverter dangerous? Most inverters have a battery temperature sensor that, I assume, would prevent what you experienced. If equalizing with an inverter is OK, how long should we set the cycle for?
As long as I am taking a detour on this thread, has anyone experienced any damage to 12V/24v equipment because of the exposure to the high voltage?
Jim
Jim,
The first time I equalized my house batteries using my Heart Interface inverter, I blew the fuses in 2 of our automotive type radios in our bus. Since that experience, I disconnect everything from the house batteries except the cables from the inverter.
The equalization time and voltage are both controlled by the inverter. I think the time is 8 hours and the voltage is high 15s or low 16s. Jack
I was using a hi-tech electronic style bench supply that will put a constant current into a load regardless of what the load voltage is. By default this will cause the battery voltage to be a bit higher than normal, but the voltage is, in this case, determined by the battery and where it "wants" to be, not by the power supply. The actual voltage was around 14.6 or so, with a healthy battery (these "were") the voltage rises only enough to accept the charge.
Equalizing a battery does this but only for 10-15 minutes at a time- some chargers do it longer, some (intellipower, my favorite) once a day, others do it once a month. There doesn't seem to be any agreement within the industry as to how frequently or how long is good or bad. The desired effect is to simply create some bubbles that stir the liquid, and de-stratify any layers of more or less acidity that may have been set up in the cell.
What I was doing was "conditioning", which is definitely more severe- you put that same "equalizing" charge on the battery but for 48 hours. It's purpose is to dissolve as much sulphation that has built up over time as you can, taking a "weak" battery back to normal capacity. It actually works quite well on a slightly sulphated battery. When I started these, their fully charged specific gravity was only around 1.200 and 6 hours before they blew up, it was just around 1.260. This is because when I started, there was enough sulphate crystals on the plates that wouldn't dissolve and turn back to sulphuric acid during a normal charge that the battery had a reduced capacity. Doing a conditioning charge gives the crystals time to dissolve and turn back to acid, and restores the capacity to a near-new state. If a battery is heavily sulphated, this trick probably won't do any good. But if it's light sulphation as these were, it works well....unless they decide to melt down!!!!...
So your question, is an equalizing inverter dangerous? No, not at all for wet cells, as long as you maintain water levels properly. In fact if you have wet cells and like them, it's essential for their long life.
With AGM's it's not necessary and can even damage them, because they don't have liquid inside so to speak, and "overcharging" them during equalizing will result in gassing which means lost electrolyte and eventual failure.
Oh yeah, most inverters do the equalizing by applying a fixed higher voltage, like 14.7 - this is easy to do electronically, and safe. As I said, I was applying a constant current, which involves a lot more electronics than you'll find in a standard RV inverter or charger, and it's "usually" safe. But apparently only "usually" :)
Here's 2 photos of where I am today with this. The acid is drained out now and as of that moment the batteries quit gurgling. So now all I have to do is carefully pump the spent electrolyte into some hazmat containers, wash off the outsides of the batteries with a lot of baking soda, and shuttle it all off to the battery warehouse who said they'd gladly take it all to the recyclers for me, for free!! Then a final cleanup and I'm all ready to try it again! (actually not!!! These were almost my last set of wet cells, when the last three I own slow down I'm gonna scrap em and convert to AGM's)
...note the nice splat they made when the kaboom happened. Can you imagine having your face in the way? Ugh!!!!!
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Don't think for a minute a AGM won't make a mess my new 300amp 6v (6) LifeLine vented and exploded in my battery compartment taking out all 6 of the high dollar batteries along with leaving a mess I am still working on to clean up.
With still no answer from LifeLine on why ?
good luck
My guess, either a defective battery (rare) or severely overcharged (happens all the time), as in did you disable your charger/inverter's equalization function, and/or what voltage is your alternator set at? Also are they located in a place that gets hot? As compared to wet cells, AGM's can't handle heat at all.
Only overcharging or an internal defect can cause an AGM to blow. Yes they still are lead acid batteries and yes they can make just as much of a mess as can a wet cell. But they are MUCH
more forgiving to the sulphation effects, deep discharge effects, and maintainance issues that come with flooded cell batteries. I'd be looking at what voltage your system presented to them. Anything over 14.1 will kill 'em. 14.1 is the gassing point beyond which an AGM can't self-convert the gasses it makes back to electrolyte... above 14.1 they vent, and if severely above 14.1 they will get hot, they will vent, and can certainly blow...
Hope you figure it out!!!
An interesting side note- evidently these things were popping for almost an hour! I heard three booms, but my neighbor just called and said she counted 14 of them, and it started almost an hour before I woke up! So I guess that says something about inherent safety designs of the batteries... made of materials that can actually explode and burn for an hour and not cause any major incident... and about me, I guess I sleep through a lot these days! Wheeeee
Gary...yep, the important thing is that you were not hurt, except for the knee. What are you going to do at Burning Man? Do they allow Crown Supercoaches?
I had a dream awhile back (have no idea why) that Burning man was held in a low lying dry lake bed and then the flash flood of the century happened. AUGHHHH!
How long can one tread water? Yikes!! Glad it was only a dream. Anyway, go and have fun, get naked, get stoned or drunk, and stay that way. Sunscreen? CROWNS FOREVER!! HB of CJ
The local battery warehouse may take batteries are no charge because they are forced to. In Minnesota all battery retailers have to take any used lead acid batteries at no charge. Then again, they might make a few bucks on the lead.
As far as flooding at Burning Man, I have heard that some years they get enough rain in the rainy season so the dry lake bed gets a foot or two of water on it. The water actually creates enough wave action to smooth out the playa.