My 8V92 DDEC II has started to leak oil from the front crankshaft seal and possibly the rear seal as well. In addition, there is oil leaking from the alternator both at the mounting flange and the wire connection end.
A little history is in order. There are 215,862 total miles on the coach since new in 1988. In 2003 and 188,000 miles the engine and transmission were pulled to repair a suspect transmission. (it turned out to be a shorted wire causing the shifting problems). While the drive train was out, the front and rear main seals were replaced as was the alternator to block gasket. The oil leaks supposedly were not big but since the package was out of the bus, the PO decided to replace the main seals and gasket.
According to the PO, there have been no oil leaks since those repairs were completed in 2003. Since my purchase of the bus this spring, a slight oil leak started at the front main seal (I say front but I really mean the seal located behind the harmonic balancer). I noticed it a few weeks ago when we did a 100 plus mile run with many of those miles between 70 and 75 MPH. It amounted to a few drops collected at the rear motor mount. The next few runs were mostly local and there was no additional oil present so I chalked it up to the high speed run.
Two days ago, I took the bus on a 271 mile exercise run mostly on interstates and maintained between 65 and 70 MPH.
When I pulled into my driveway, the back of the bus was covered in a fine mist of oil. Looking under the bus today, the bottom of the oil pan was covered with oil as was the rear motor mount. There were quite a few big drops just waiting for gravity to take its course and stain my driveway.
Up until this episode the oil level has not changed in the 1380 miles since the oil and filter were replaced a few months ago. After this run on Friday, the oil level is halfway between the marks on the dip stick.
As far as the rear seal is concerned, I can't tell if there is oil coming from the seal or if it is the alternator leaking and dripping or a combination of the two.
My questions are; what could have caused the seals to fail and does the motor need to be pulled to change these seals? How hard is it to pull the alternator and have new seals put in it? There doesn't seem like there is much room to pull the alternator without pulling the air filter and related plumbing. The bus is a 102A3.
Any thought or advice would be appreciated.
Paul
First, the back of the bus looks lots worse than the amount of oil it takes to make it look that way.
In other words, a very small amount of oil goes a long way to covering you in dirt. I have had coaches with oil appearing to run down the back only show the stick down a quarter of the way to add from full, where it was in the AM before it went wrong, so about one quart. It looked like GALLONS.
So, don't be too worried because of the appearance.
Second, what oil is in the engine? Multi-grade leaks much better than 40 wt.
Third, forget the crank seals until everything else has been dealt with.
Fourth, yes, the alternator needs to see a doctor and can be re-sealed.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Paul,
There is another source for a leak at the rear of the 8V92. There is a little o-ring seal for the power steering pump that has a bad habit of going out about every 2-3 years. It is the dickens to get at. I found a local tour bus garage with a really skinny and flexible mechanic to make the repair. No more leaks so far. Check the fluid level in the power steering reservoir. If it is low to really low the leak in the rear could be that pesky little o-ring. I think the o-ring costs $0.75. I bought a spare to carry with me just in case I am in transit the next time it fail. Priceless!
The oil is 40 wt which is what has been used all along. My concern is the sudden increase in oil loss from the engine. My best guess is it all went bad somewhere in the last 140 miles of my trip.
Is there a standard amount of oil between the high and low marks on the dip stick? I know my boat is 1 quart between the marks but is it the same on an 8V92?
I will check the power steering reservoir and pump but I believe my power steering is filled with ATF. I have not verified that it is ATF but there is a note written on the inside of the rear door stating this fact. I guess now is a good time to verify if it is ATF or oil.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul the marks are different depending on the oil pan my 8v82 in the Eagle is 1 gal between the full and low marks
good luck
Correction to your trouble shooting thinking:
Don't be naming the engine, you'll miss something important.
You are loosing enough oil to be wearing it on the back of the coach.
What kind of oil, still remains to be seen, as a half gallon in 1300 odd miles could just as easily gone out via the exhaust.
Out of the engine, or out of anywhere else in that lubrication system.
Tranny and power steering look the same on the back of the coach mixed with dirt.
usually, it is one gallon between add and full on a bus dipstick.
Put this in perspective, as long as there is oil in all the reservoirs, the machine is not harmed.
Every little drip under the coach will be worn on the back due to the vortex of air curling up the back while going down the road. A nice early warning system, but not a cause for alarm.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Assuming the correct dipstick?
Where is the oil level on the dipstick when the engine is cold?
Checking and adjusting the oil level on a hot engine will result in overfilling...
The engine may have a lot of wear and at the speeds you're driving, it's blowing oil out wherever it can.
The fact that the seals were replaced is probably an indication that the problem onset isn't as new as you may think.
One other tidbit of information is that the seals must be "rotation" correct (RH in your bus), and they are Teflon seals. Teflon seals are installed dry. A good many old DD mechanics have a difficult time with the "dry" concept. Lubed Teflon seals won't 'seat.' Failure to follow proper intallation technique could cause premature failure of the seals. And add another layer for failure, the seals are matched to the wear rings. Perhaps the wear rings were not replaced, or maybe the wrong dia seals were used.
Oil leaking in small puddles from the bottom of the bell housing once the coach is parked is a pretty good sign of a rear main leak. It collects in the bell housing and oozes out when parked.
Check the oil level cold, make sure it's between the full and low marks. Don't add oil if it's between these marks. Take the bus out for a 60 MPH ride. If the leak issue subsides considerably at lower speeds, blowback in the engine may be pressurizing the crankcase.
You may want to check your airbox drains and valve cover road draft tubes and filter. Make sure that they are not stopped up by bees or crud.
Does the engine smoke when cold? Smoke when driving at highway speeds?
The oil use you are describing, halfway down the dipstick from full in 270 miles, is abnormal oil use.
There is no harm in allowing the oil level to fall off to the lower levels on the dipstick. I wouldn't let it drop below the 'add' mark, but some well-worn two strokes blow out the first couple of quarts when full.
Checking the engine oil level cold will give an accurate oil level. If it's overfilled, it'll blow the extra oil out.
Alternators don't typically leak. A 50dn adaptor requires centering with a special tool before installing the alternator. You might have a series of screwups by a poor mechanic. However, since all the same points seem to be leaking after repairs were made, you might have an engine problem too.
A good many extremely low mileage coaches seem to have issues due to lack of use.
HTH, JR
Buswarrier and JR, I always try to check the oil under the same circumstances, flat surface, engine cold, etc, and up till now, the oil level has been at the full mark each time.
I will call the shop today and try to verify oil brand and viscosity. The same guy has changed the oil and filters for the past 6 years and the invoice states 34 qts oil, 40W but we all make mistakes and who knows, he may have substituted multigrade. If multigrade were substituted, would it take a while for things to go wrong?
For 1380 miles, there has been no change to the oil level, no oil misting on the back of the bus and no significant drips in my driveway. After this last trip, I left a 10 inch long oil run on my driveway as I was backing up the slight incline of my driveway.
The engine does not produce oil related smoke when cold or hot, just a puff of black smoke when starting out from a stop light. I ran the bus several times yesterday in the driveway with no visible smoke at startup or when it was hot.
I don't know if the replacement seals were Teflon but I will find out. I have the invoice with the part numbers so it should be easy to call and ask. There is part number listed on the invoice for both a sleeve and a crank spacer so I assume that may be the wear ring you refer to???
I am not getting any pooling of oil under the bell housing at this time, just a lot of oil covering the oil pan.
How does one check the airbox drains and valve cover road draft tubes and filter? We have a lot of mud daubers here and I have found several drains clogged with their nests, so that may be a possibility.
JR, if I understand correctly, I could pull the alternator, have it resealed but I would need an alignment tool to reinstall it???
FWIW, prior to my purchasing the bus, I took it to DD for an overall engine and trans inspection, oil and coolant samples were taken and were clean and I had them run the bus on their chassis dyno. I also took it to an independent shop and had them go over the bus from front to back. Both shops commented at how clean the drivetrain was so this oil leak situation seems to be sudden onset.
Thanks,
Paul
After several hours of crawling under the bus today, I am 99% sure the front main seal is the primary source of my oil leak. There is also a small amount of oil leaking somewhere around the rear of the engine but I can't determine if it the alternator, the rear seal or a little of both.
I called DD and they are quoting 4-5 hours to replace the front seal and 22-23 hours if the rear seal needs to be replaced. Do these labor hours seem reasonable? The reason I ask is the PO was charged 37 hours to do the same work at ABC bus here in Florida.
Talking with the DD service manager, he feels that the seals that were replaced 6 years and 35,000 miles ago have dried out from sitting and now that the bus is being run a fair amount, they are just passing oil.
My thoughts are to replace the front main seal, repair the oil leak from the alternator, and see what happens with the rear seal. Does this make sense?
I did check the power steering reservoir and there is no loss of fluid but thanks for the tip.
Thanks,
Paul
Sounds like a plan. The rear main would be the last thing I'd take potshots at.
You can remove the alternator from the adaptor without any special proceedures.
The adaptor is what has critical alignment. Unless the adaptor gasket is leaking, don't remove the adaptor. Just pull the alternator off of the adaptor..."just" is a relative term.
There are various methods to pull the alternator. You can remove the air cleaner and pick it out with a cherry picker, or if you know someone that has more muscles than good sense, it can be manhandled out thru the floor hatch. It is nasty, very heavy and sorta fragile. Be careful with the alternator project if you're not familiar with such things. Make sure that the battery mains are off and the alternator is de-powered before removing cables.
If you plan to pull the powertrain, clearly that would be the time to work with the alternator.
The alternator is a PITA to remove when the engine is installed in the bus.
You'll have to gain access thru the hatches located where a bed is usually installed...?
The seals may be suffering from sitting. May have been improperly installed. Hard to screw up both of them?
The time quoted is at the extreme end of 'reasonable' IMHO.
They are probably quoting two mechanics (one mechanic and one helper) for about 2 days worth of work.
The engine and transmission can be removed in a few hours. Once the cradle is out, another 2-4 hours should install the seal and wear ring. The problems begin when special tools for two strokes aren't available, and such things as removing wear rings can be a hangup. However, removal of the bell housing is not required to replace a rear main and wear ring. The wear ring is a PITA and must be removed without damaging the crank or bell housing. They are covering their butts.
They may be using truck flat rates too. In this repair, a bus is a much quicker operation than truck. One of the rare easier jobs. No accessories must be removed to pull a cradle from an MCI. Even the transmission oil cooler remains connected to the transmission, and the power steering lines have quick disconnects located at the bulkhead.
I'd steam clean the engine and then drive it enough to see where the oil is coming from for sure.
It would be a bad situation to have all that work done and still have a leak. The mechanic will not be able to ID a bad rear main seal unless it's displaces or damaged from poor installation during prior service.
Regarding the airbox drains....you may have a catch-can under the rear of the engine with two small hoses attached to it. The drain hoses exit about center on each side beneath the exhaust manifolds. You'll see the hoses and a check valve.
When the bus is idling, both hoses should drop a small amount of oily gas. If they do this, they are clear. If they are dry, the hoses should be clean, replaced, or whatever it takes to get them cleared. The check valves are in the hoses and same applies.
If you are not dripping oil from the hole in the bottom of the bell housing...you may not have a bad rear main seal. The oil could be coming from a cracked line, head gaskets...ad infinitum. Cleaning the engine and evaluation should resolve what's leaking.
My rear main seal failed at about 180K. It wasn't difficult to see where the oil was coming from.
Leaking from both the open unused motor mount holes in the bell housing (middle sides of bell housing) and the drain hole in the bottom of the bell housing.
You might want to check that the bell housing drain isn't plugged with a pipe plug. It's threaded and someone may have decided to plug the hole. Then oil would run out the sides of the bell housing and ooze from all over the rear of the engine. This would not cause the alternator to leak. The alternator is driven from inside the gearcase in front of the bell housing.
If oil isn't running out of the bell housing drain, the rear main seal is likely not the proximate cause of your problem.
Odd that both front and rear crank seals have failed suddenly at the same time? Pull one of the valve cover breathers off the engine and see if you get a 'rush' of air and oil vapors. They are easy to remove.
Make sure that you have the correct oil in the engine. I'm not sure that you've driven enough for multiV to screw anything up, but old DDs don't work well on 15W40. That's all most mechanics know about these days. They swear it's best. But, it won't work in 2 strokes.
BTW, black smoke isn't indicative of a problem. That's due to overfueling at startoff. That's one of the reasons electronic engine control systems were developed.
Good luck, JR
One more thing...the alternator oil inlet line has a flow limiting orifice (small jet) that may be missing.
I would guess that if it wasn't in place, the high oil flow might cause the alternator to leak.
JR
Paul, I would clean the area good and check the oil pan a DDEC uses a special gasket and bolts to prevent the pan from being over tighten and they do come loose and will have the same appearance as a seal leaking
good luck
JR,
Thanks for all your input. Both airbox drains function as you describe so that is good news to me. The threaded hole in the bottom of the bell housing is clear and is not dripping oil so maybe the rear seal is fine.
I am pretty confident that there is straight 40W in the engine. The mechanic that did the oil & filter change went to great lengths to tell me to never use multi grade oils and to only use 40W. He could have grabbed the multi grade hose but I really doubt it.
I did take a long look at the alternator and how I would remove it if I have to and you are right, it looks to be a bear to get out. I will look at the bed and see how hard it will be to open it up and gain access that way.
I agree, it is odd that both seals might fail at the same time however, if the front seal has failed due to drying/sitting, logic suggests the same might happen to the rear seal.
The engine, trans and surrounding areas are now clean of all oil and dirt (what a mess). I was planing to do some local, around town driving in the morning and see if it leaks under city conditions. If it stays dry, I will then run the interstate and verify the location of the leaks.
Thanks for your help and I'll keep you posted as to the outcome.
Paul
Luvrbus,
Thanks for the oil pan tip. I will check the bolts before I head out tomorrow. Do the bolts need to be torqued?
Paul
Assembling a collection of lumber in order to make a ramp of sorts to roll/crash land the alternator out via the side engine access door will probably be easier. Pay CLOSE attention to the cabling and connectors that are in harms way on the rear junction box and don't snap any of them off!
To re-install, pushing it up the lumber ramp and your helper working the fasteners from above will work better than trying to hang it from above and your poor sod of a helper waiting for it to be dropped and crush fingers.
It ain't pretty, lots of cursing and lots of lumber bits to prop, pry and heave. An old long fan belt used as a sling from above to help it all along might be thrown into the mix.
85 pounds of electrical love.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Oil leak update- I cleaned all the oil from the engine and rear of the coach. Early this week, I ran a 22 mile city loop and not a drop of oil to be seen anywhere. Max speed was 44 mph and that was just for a few minutes.
Today, I ran a 42 mile mostly highway loop to a destination where I parked the bus and shut off the engine for a few hours. When I returned, there was at least a tablespoon or two of oil drips on the parking lot from what appears to be the front main seal. I ran the reverse trip home and have the same situation, oil dripping from the cross member located right under the main seal. I have an oil diaper under the area to see exactly how much is leaking.
It appears that there is enough oil leaking under highways speeds that it is being thrown by centrifugal force so it mists the back of the bus.
The bus is still very hot so I haven't crawled under to check the bell housing area or the alternator but a quick look shows the rear of the engine to be oil free.
As it sits right now and baring any new info, it looks like I am in for a new front main seal.
If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know before I spend the money to replace the seal.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul...has your engine oil been check for excessive diesel fuel. That can cause seals leakage. If you are getting fuel in oil...you may fuel line leaking under valve cover.
How much engine oil in 1000 miles? One or two quarts or more? If not much...it could be the fuel helping to maintain oil level somewhat.
If the crankcase breather tube from the valve covers show no blow-by under load via auto transmission in drive with fully applied brake on. Have someone look for smoke coming out of breather. If none...you have good compression rings.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Gerald,
Thanks for the info. I did both an oil and coolant analysis about 1500 miles ago and everything was normal. The oil level is dropping rather quickly so I don't suspect fuel in the oil but I will pull a sample just to be sure.
I put short extensions on the breather tubes and air box drains along with collector bottles so I can better monitor any discharge. After this short trip, all the collectors were dry. There was a small drop of stuff at the end of each airbox drain but I understand this is normal.
I'll let you all know the outcome after my visit to DD.
Thanks again for everyones advice. It makes owning one of these beasts a lot easier knowing there is help at the other end of the keyboard.
Paul
What you describe is how seals leak. I had exactly the same complaint with a rear main seal leak. As long as you kept the speed below 60 MPH it wouldn't leak. Get out on the interstate and it would leak big-time. Scared the poop out of me. Oil literally coverd the bus backside.
I'd want to see the old spacer and seal out of curiosity.
My devious mind can see someone charging for a seal and wear ring (a spacer behind the harmonic balancer) and installing only the seal. You'll be a good many miles down the road before problems pop up...and way out of shop warranty period. And the mechanic gets 5 hours for a job description that only took two hours to complete....?
Wear rings can be difficult to remove. Real PITA sometimes. The balancer spacer, if it was replaced per your history, should come off without too much trouble. And it shouldn't have an obvious wear indentation since it has only a few thousand miles of wear.
The old seal will have small "oil screws" that move the oil back into the engine. They should be correct for a RH engine.
The only other thought is to make sure that the oil pan gasket isn't causing your problem.
I vote for a new front engine seal...JR
Paul, if you are planing on a DIY job the inner cone as it it called has a seal on the inside also don't forget to install it or you will have a leak.
Also if your pulley has the 1 1/2 inch bolt inside the pulley it requires a special puller that screws into the pulley the other pulley and the harmonic balancer can be removed with a good 2 bolt puller. good luck
I have the version that requires the special puller so it is off to DD in the morning to have the seal replaced. I told the service manager that I will be staying on site and want the old parts returned. They were fine with that and promissed not to charge extra for me hanging a round.
I just realized that I did not update on the alternator oil leak. It appears that oil leak is extremely small. In the 100+ miles I have driven since the area was cleaned, there is not one drop of oil. I think I had two issues, I think there is a small oil leak at the alternator but I also found that there was a small coolant leak in the pipe located right above the alternator that supplies hot water to the heating system. I suspect the oil and coolant were mixing resulting in a worse looking situation than really existed.
As an aside, has anyone noticed a problem with leaking coolant hoses when switching to CAT extended life coolant.
I have a Cummins in my boat and switched the coolant to CAT extended life after 2 years. Shortly after, I had numerous drips where coolant hoses joined steel pipes. The PO of my bus had replaced the coolant with CAT extended life about 6 months prior to my purchase and I am now seeing the same thing. I have found 4 separate connections that have small drips. In all cases, a little tightening of the hose clamps stopped the leaks.
What really surprised me about the boat is the hose clamps are the type that have the big spring that is supposed to adjust for expansion and contraction.
I'll let you know how the seal change goes.
Paul
Update - I had the bus at DD 7:30 this AM. DD had the bus in the service bay at 8:17 and the pulleys, harmonic balancer and inner cone/wear ring were off in less than an hour.
After looking at the wear ring, it is clear that it was NOT replaced when the seal was changed the last time. For that matter, I don't know if the seal was really changed or if the PO was ripped off.
Of interest, there were three distinct wear rings with the two outer rings about a 1/2 inch apart. The third wear ring was split about 60/40 between the outer rings.
So either the seal was replaced several times over the last 21 years and was installed in a slightly different location or the wear ring was from another motor but new to this motor or the wear ring was shimmed to expose a new surface or lastly, the crankshaft is moving fore and aft about 1/2 inch.
One last item of interest, the steel face of the seal which has the part number, instructions to install dry and is also stamped RH (for right hand I assume) was bent out at the bottom. I don't think that has any effect on the sealing characteristics but it does indicated a poor installation.
DD has the seal and the O-ring that goes inside the wear ring in stock but did not have the wear ring itself. They claim there are different lengths and had to have the correct one shipped from another facility across state. They should have the parts by tomorrow afternoon and buttoned up shortly thereafter.
FWIW, I had no idea how easy it was to replace the seal. I could have done this myself probably faster than DD. The technician could not figure out how the get the AC compressor belts off the crankshaft pulleys. I had to show him how to remove the belts from the compressor side first and then the crankshaft. He looked pretty pathetic after I gently educated him.
Thats all for now.
Paul
I got the bus back this afternoon and all seems well. I will take the bus out this weekend for a long run and make sure there is no more leaking oil.
I did some research with the help of the DD parts dept and the wear ring/cone was NOT replaced when the seal was changed in 2003.
Is it common practice to use the old wear ring/cone or are the parts generally replaced as a set?
The old seal has what appears to be a part number stamped on it which is 23511486. Both the invoice from 2003 and today have the part number listed as 23514608. Is the number stamped on the seal supposed to match the actual part number or do they represent different things?
On another note, DD tried to rip me on the labor costs. They claim it took 4.5 hours to do the job so they tried to hit me up for some big bucks. I was able to demonstrate to them the complete time line from when I arrived, to the time the tech started to work on the bus to the time he finished the disassembley. The techs time was 1 hour & 5 minutes. I asked the shop foreman how it could possible take 3 hours & 25 minutes to install the seal and put everything back when it took 1:05 to pull everything apart.
I almost fell down when he said "if you weren't back there the other day, you wouldn't know how long the job took" implying it doesn't matter what the actual time was, this is what we think you can afford.
At this point, the receptionist disappeared and came back a few minutes later and reduced the labor by 1.5 hours. She told me after the foreman had left that she didn't like his answer so she went over his head.
I guess the moral of the story is it pays to be vigilant.
Paul
Part numbers on invoices often don't match the 'casting' numbers. The vendor stamps the numbers. Distributors often use different numbers, or combination of numbers so that their part numbering system works.
Regarding the time...most shops work on a flat rate basis. Whatever the flat-rate book says is what it is. Usually. If flat-rate gives a mechanic 5 hours but he completes the job in two, he gets his percentage of 5 hours. This can be rather lucrative for both mechanic and shop. More completed ops for the shop, more bucks for the mechanic. Also induces some mechanics to shortcuts. FWIW.
Mature equipment (bus conversions often fall into this group) is usually time'n materials...or flat-rate--whichever is greater.
Your experience is one reason most shops don't want customers in the work area.
The wear rings can be turned around on some models. Or the seal can be slightly repositioned to avoid the worn groove area. Or, sometimes the mechanic is just crap and does poor work. Teflon seals should have a new smooth surface to work into. The teflon acutally 'mills' in a matching seal surface on the wear ring (cone, spacer, etc).
The front crank seals are not 'set' matched. They may be application (engine series) matched.
Rear main seals ARE set matched to the diameter of the wear ring, or the crank. They have various sizes due to the lack of a wear ring on original cranks.
If the steel housing of the seal was deformed prior to removing the seal, the prior job was crap. The seal was likely driven in with a drift. A seal driver should be used to install seals. However, most shops would go broke buying special tools for all comers...so creative mechanic skills are useful.
Being 'vigilant' is good as long as it doesn't piss off a good mechanic. Maintaining a relationship with a good shop and keeping the price down is an art form. This is especially true when trying to get good service work on a 2 stroke.
Good luck with your project! JR
Paul, both seals are the same even with different numbers DD does a group parts number the 1st was for a 6v92 or 8v92 and the last seal was the group number for 6V92 or 8v92 notice the 6 0 8 that is a DD part
92 series will have the number 51 in their parts number.
The 6v92 and the 8v92 have the same oil pump and will have different group numbers.
good luck
JR. Thanks for your insight on shop rates. I thought long and hard before I questioned the bill for the very reason you stated, I will most likely need these folks again. I learned a long time ago it is better to maintain relationships over a few dollars here and there.
The primary issue in this case was the shop stated the job would be billed on an hourly rate and then tried to to hit me with the flat rate price.
The hourly rate was understood by all parties before the job was started. They even had me sign a document that spelled out the hourly rate for the job when I dropped off the bus. We agreed before hand that it would be beneficial if I could prep the bus as much as possible to reduce the billable hours. I therefore removed the rear bumper and the hitch receiver which took me about 20 minutes.
My point is it is all about meeting the customers expectations. If the customer is told one thing and it changes, this leads to difficulties.
The one thing I did not mention is that the shop foreman went off on me telling me that when he goes to Walmart, he doesn't question the prices at the time of checkout. I tried to explain I was just looking for a brakedown of the labor hours and then he made a comment about how much money I must have to be able to afford a toy like the bus.
All in all, it was not a pleasent experience.
Paul
In all my years dealing with a Detroit dealer I never heard of one having a flat rate Stewart and Stevenson,Smith and WW Williams will furnish you a copy of the techs time card.
There is no way they could use a flat rate like a automotive shop to many different engine applications.
Sound like you had a jerk for shop foreman most shop foremans will deduct time without being ask because they know the guys will do other jobs and forget to clock out on your job.
That has been my experence with the DD dealers in the west anyway.
The truck shops are a different breed they will get you for all they can and more like charging 35.00 more per hr than the normal shop rate because you are a RV when I see that out the door I go.
good luck
Oil leak is fixed.
We took the bus out yesterday for a long highway run. Stopped at the Wildwood exit off of I-75 here in Florida to have the wheels polished opened the engine bay with crossed fingers and not a drop of oil anywhere.
After they finished the wheels, I checked the oil level and it was exactly where it should have been so all is well in bus land.
Thanks again for everyones input. It was very helpful to rule out other possible oil leak sites and I learned a lot in the process.
Paul
PAUL,
I've got the same problem with mine, 8v-92 natural. I went yesterday to the local DD shop and purchased that seal and
heading to another shop to have it installed today. The price for that seal here in Indianapolis at DD was $19.89.
So, don't be taken by the price somewhere else.
Steve 5B.......
I usually use CR sleeves to repair the wear surface that a seal would ride on. Is there a reason why this wouldn't work, if I were to plan to do this job on my engine? Or is it really the deal to pull the thing apart, get the wear ring, and order one to match?
Thanks, brian
Steve, if you don't replace the inner cone and seal you are wasting your time and money.
Me with 8v92 engines with a harmonic balancer I replace both the inner and outer just my way of doing it.
good luck
Steve 5B,
The seal was itself was 18.21, the cone was 63.76, and the o-ring seal that goes inside the cone was 6.65.
Paul
Luvrbus's reply came in while I was typing and I would agree 100%
When the seal in my engine was relaced 6 years ago, they did NOT replace the cone and I can see the different wear marks from the different seals.
Paul
You can beat the 63 dollar price on the cone they are about 30 dollars for both from PC Industries or Don Fairchild here on the board McBee and Federal both have the aftermarket cone and seal
good luck
Paul - How much for the wheel polish @ Wildwood ? - sorry for the hijack
Niles,
$15.00 paid at the truckwash to acid wash the wheels and $10.00 (if you pay cash and don't want a receipt) per wheel to machine polish and then follow through with hand polish.
Best $75 I have ever spent as far as appearance is concerned. I could not get over how good the wheels looked after the acid wash. It removed 90% of the junk/gunk and I almost skipped the machine polishing.
There are four shops that do wheels at the Wildwood exit. If your interested, make sure you go to JP. His crew does the best work and he makes his own cleaner polish which I have used on the stainless and does a real nice job. The polish is sold across the street at I-75 chrome as well.
Paul
The wheels look brand new
Paul, thanks for the info - when heading west from I75 is JP on the left (south) side of the road or right (north) side? - One more question - Did you only have 3 wheels done? shouldn't it be $150 for 6 wheels? 15+10x6=150
I'll be heading up there this week and definitely need a clean/polish - thanks again
Quote from: niles500
Paul, thanks for the info - when heading west from I75 is JP on the left (south) side of the road or right (north) side? - One more question - Did you only have 3 wheels done? shouldn't it be $150 for 6 wheels? 15+10x6=150
I'll be heading up there this week and definitely need a clean/polish - thanks again
Niles I think it is more like $15.00 for all 6 wheels at the truck wash and $10.00 each X 6=$60 @ the polish shop! =$75
And wow is JP still doing wheels after all these yrs? (If it is the same JP over on the south west side near the chrome shop used to polish wheels way back when I had trks!)
;D BK ;D
Doh ???
Thanks Bryce, had a brain freeze there ::)
Sorry for the confusion on the price. The $15 was to wash all the wheels and $60 to polish.
JP is located behind the truckwash on the north side as you head west. The entrance is between the TA truck stop and the KFC.
Bryce, JP was at a truck show in Texas but it was his crew that did my wheels.
Paul
Quote from: paul102a3 on August 18, 2009, 08:27:07 PM
Sorry for the confusion on the price. The $15 was to wash all the wheels and $60 to polish.
JP is located behind the truckwash on the north side as you head west. The entrance is between the TA truck stop and the KFC.
Bryce, JP was at a truck show in Texas but it was his crew that did my wheels.
Paul
Probably the same JP, and yes he was at that location once before when I was trucking. But when they opened up the chrome shop he was working in the lot next door to them for a while. Is the CB shop still there behind the truck wash too or does JP have that for an office/shop?
Just curious. ;D BK ;D
JP has his location at the east end of the building. Right next door is another outfit that does wheels and the rest of the building seems empty.
Someone else has the location next to the chrome shop. Interestingly, the folks that run the chrome shop don't suggest using them and send people across the street to JP.
Paul
Paul - Your fine, the only confused one was me - thanks again for the info
Paul ;You were hit with the charges as listed in the flat rate manual.A blind man can do repairs in the length of time the Flat Rate Manual allows.When I am ordering repairs,I alwas ask if they are charging by the flat rate manuel.If the answer is yes ,then I move on down the list.These so called flat rates are highway robbery in my opinion!
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