I was talking with a guy who brokers rv's for private buyers through auctions around that state. He claimed that used rv values are going up due to the lack of new production. How does that wash with your experiences? Do you think that this phenomena effects our buses also?
I am told by a reliable source that in Florida you can buy a 2 year old fifth wheel with slides for 10 to 12k. Not for me, but the economy is bad all over Florida.
John
I talked to a guy that purhased a new Airstream for half the asking price!
Jack
I'm trying to sell a nice John Deere lawn tractor, got one call...two years ago it would have been gone FFAASSTT!!
One thing I have noticed over the past year is the steady upwards climb of surplus parts prices, this can be explained fairly easily by the market slowly drying up, I make regular trips to elkhart and hit the surplus outlets about every couple of months, with the turmoil and decline of active rv companies the inventory isn't being turned over at the same rate it was just a year or so ago. Most inventories were scheduled on a 90 day rotation for many of the components that go into S&S units, a factory didn't hold onto parts inventory beyond that mark mainly due to the changes that design engineers were incorporating into the units, at the 90 day point or around it, Bontragers would pick up the surplus and sell it thru their store, thats the relative cycle of the industry until recently, I would get a call from them telling me what the new stock was and I'd schedule a trip based on what I needed for the work I was doing at the time. I can see where the price of used units would be changing as well due to the slowly declining availability of new units, that could certainly affect the prices, that combined with the economic uncertainty makes a difficult market for everyone.
My buddy has a niece who went to a boat show with her husband earlier this year and saw a yacht, (yes, they have money), that they liked and made an offer of $845,000 on an asking price of $1.4 million. Sales people laughed at them.....2 months later they get a call asking if they are still interested in the boat. Guess who has a new boat and guess what they paid. Must be nice. :)
One thing I've found is that people are rebuilding before replacing for the most part now, I used to get around 12 to 15 calls a year from people that wanted some updates done, didn't matter if it was new valences or a new vanity, just updates of some sort, I've had that many calls now since june, people are being very cautious now on major expenditures, for a lot of things now it's a buyers market and people with money can really get some bargains, for the rest of us I'll oil the hinges one more time lol.
Quote from: Lin on July 24, 2009, 05:38:49 PM
I was talking with a guy who brokers rv's for private buyers through auctions around that state. He claimed that used rv values are going up due to the lack of new production. How does that wash with your experiences? Do you think that this phenomena effects our buses also?
Sounds like either wishful thinking, or he wants to offer you a "steal" on something he can't sell.
More BS from a salesperson.
If they say it enough, it will be true.
Ever hear the real estate sales establishment say anything negative?
"It's always going up, and there's no time like right now"... for the last 20 years?
harumph.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Try telling all the folks complaining about no responses to their Craigslist RV ads that used RV values are going up in price.
Most of these folks seem to be pricing fairly, but many of them aren't even getting low ball offers.
If the prices are going down so much, why can't I find a low, low price on a use RV? Everybody seems to want top dollar for what they have for sale.
Last October through November banks began liquidating the bad loan toys. In CA the prices of RVs, boats etc. dropped as the process continued. This has really helped the used dealers and put the new dealers in deep dodo.
I talked to several dealers at a recent RV stadium extravaganza and the used only people are having the best year of their lives. The prices have fallen faster than the market's expectations so the dealers are getting great markups while the shoppers are getting great deals. I know starting in February I saw a lot of inventory at killer prices.
As of last fall I couldn't find an RV that I could afford and my wife would sit in. I purchased the nicest RV I've looked at in April.
To krs2fer, if you want the cheapest possible price look for a person who will take you to an auction and charge you a set fee for the service. You will be able to purchase at the auction price. It is hard to get much cheaper than that.
Mike
Quote from: krs2fer on July 26, 2009, 07:13:52 PM
If the prices are going down so much, why can't I find a low, low price on a use RV? Everybody seems to want top dollar for what they have for sale.
Wanting top dollar and getting top dollar are two different matters. Most of the time, a seller posts a high price, expecting to negotiate down. It is a harsh and sometimes heartbreaking reality for inexperienced sellers, but asking price is almost never the selling price.
Go to the eplace and look at RV's!!!! Then click on the completed listings, many are not even getting bids!!
I've talked to a lot of people that are actually trying to sell and a lot that are trying to buy, you would think that they would find each other easily but what I"m finding is that, money is just not available. This is a small town with basically 2 banks that I live in, the population depends on the day of the week lol and whats going on at the time but hovers around 2500. When people walk into either of the 2 banks the clerks, up to the bank president know you by your first name, they know if your working and where, they know your parents and whether you bought that new toaster that the hardware store had on special last week, it's a throwback to simpler times and I like it, when a person goes to buy something now around here the bank actually looks at your ability to pay, something that they had put aside for so long, they actually make you fill out an application and you need to wait while they give it some thought, the days of easy money never did reach up here. There will always be a segment that has the money to do what they want whenever they want but I'm part of the group that has to balance the check book and compare prices and what I'm seeing up here is that people are holding onto their cars longer, they are getting them repaired instead of getting rid of them and they arn't buying much that will tie up money for a long time.
A nice fantasy, if only it were true.
I noticed that the bus conversions held their value for long after the general RV market collapsed. But alas, they didn't hold up forever.
The problem has three big vectors. One, no lending institution wants to lend money on a rig less than five years old, and they want a lot more than 20% down. They'll loan the money IF you can show you have enough money in other assets to cover the loan.
Second, prices are wicked low on some mighty nice pieces, but if you already own one, you have to give it away or own two.
Three. the folks with enough money not to be concerned with one and two, are buying new. I know two different buyers of new, and the convertors are making some incredible deals just to keep something moving through their shop.
I think Cody is right on the money, If the rig has a good frame and drivetrain under it, folks are much more inclined to just do some spiffing than the buy another one.
Richard,
I am in your #2 condition. I would like to trade up and get a great deal doing so, but I know that I will not get much for what I have. We just might do some upgrading on what we have, which would actually make the investment to market value ratio even worse.
Upgrades seem to be the way most are going, a person has to concider several things when thinking along these lines, find the happy median point where the upgrade add's appreciable value but doesn't carry an unrealistic pricetag, another factor is what the upgrade means to you as far as creature comfort goes, I always figured adding an indoor toilet would mean a lot more to me than adding a built in coffee grinder lol, and we all know how much I enjoy my coffee. What seems to be selling the most as far as my calls show are refacing cabinets with new drawer fronts and doors. The way it appears is that a lot of people have killed the idea of trading this year and are prepping the rig to sell in a year or two or when the market improves, the draw back is that when the market goes up on the used rigs it's also climbing on the newer rigs so it's kind of a catch 22.
Upgrading a 20 to 50 year bus is waste of time and money if you have the idea the resale value will increase not going to happen.
I know guys that paid Southern Oregon Diesel 40 grand for a modern engine and they still have 60,000 dollar bus same as it was with 6v92 only difference they have 40 more grand into the bus they will never recoup.
Me I would upgrade to a newer unit like Lin probably would be a Blue Bird or Newell to get a later, low mileage unit, with the slides and a well built coach just me thinking out loud.
good luck
The value of my Eagle to me is the happiness in the wife, kids and grandkids eyes when the "daddy express" (named by my then 5 year old daughter), shows up to deliver them to their next playground. I bought my 05 in 95 and expected to have it the rest of my life. A tree hit it in 02 and the ins. co. gave me twice what I had in it. It was without power steering, turbo or Allison and I decided to just up date with another bus.
I basically gave the 05 to my best friend along with a pretty fresh 8V71 TA that he could install. I knew he would repair it and do the engine swap and he has. Its like its almost still in the family and he is going to have to put up with everyone asking, is that Larry's old bus?
I would like an engine update, but my 6V92 only has 800 hours, and I have a spare if I need it. I never bought either bus with the thought of not dying with it, and thats still true today. Of course I still have many things it would be wise to get rid of, including some old KW trucks and one of my dads old farm tractors.
I had several relatives mention to me that my bus may no longer be such a great thing when diesel was $4.50 a gallon, but I reminded them that I had 10 people on and that to feed them and sleep/shower them some other place or way would cost me alot more than what I was spending with the bus.
I have never looked at what my Model 20 is worth because its not for sale. Many of you have older buses than mine and they still get the job done with some class. There are 2 old GM's in the RV Park across the street at the lake from Ca. today. If the entire system collapsed, I would still want my bus. It could even be a life safer as the future unfolds. If we had a terrorist attack and needed to go, we could go in comfort.
My son Joe, (#3 of 7 sons) and his wife and 2 kids, (NEW BABY) fly in Wed nite from Mn. You can see on their faces, there is nothing like having your family coach pick you up at the airport with some cold ones in the reefer.
I just hope that I am fortunate enough to die old, with my bus still looking after us. Its kind of like my gun, they can have it when the pry my cold dead hand off it.
Quote from: Lin on July 27, 2009, 02:11:47 PM
Richard,
I am in your #2 condition. I would like to trade up and get a great deal doing so, but I know that I will not get much for what I have. We just might do some upgrading on what we have, which would actually make the investment to market value ratio even worse.
Lin the issue is the difference not the price. If you focus on prices and not difference you will miss great opportunities.
I came across an RV that I loved but the owner couldn't get past price. He had is new RV picked out and just couldn't pull the trigger even though the difference was less than it ever had been. He was expecting $90,000ish and I don't think he will get $30,000ish but the new bus he found is a little more than $100,000 instead of the $240,000 that they were going for just 6 months ago.
His realistic difference is now $80,000 instead of $150,000 and the owner thought he was getting the worst part of the deal.
Remember difference is wayyyyy more important than the price. Price is an illusion. Life is about opportunities.
Mike
Clifford,
I did not know that you read minds also. How did you know I was considering a Bluebird. The ones in my range do not have slides though.
Lin, I don't know model you are looking at but I had 1992 40 ft Wanderlodge that was a great bus never gave me a problem.
I am not a big fan of the FC models but the PT (pushers) I like.
Looking back the biggest mistake I made was trading it in on a new 1996 Prevost.
We have been thinking about buying a 43 ft BlueBird with slides. good luck
Clifford,
This may be hijacking my own thread, but what do you think of the late BMC's and the Cummings 8.3 (I think).
Lin, we have friends that have a 40 ft BMC and have had no problems I think it is a 1998 year model and it has M 11 400 hp Cummins.
I like BlueBirds cheap parts (off the shelf)and easy to work on some guys that never owned 1 will tell you they are a school bus and ride bad but that is not true the coach chassis is different than the school bus.
You know that Volvo (Prevost) owned BlueBird till the converters whined so much about the competition between Prevost and BlueBird till Volvo sold it off and tried to make it go away.
I think you will enjoy a BlueBird.
FWIW my dash in the Eagle is a carry over from our BlueBird I love the dashes in BlueBirds plenty of gauges easy to read nice layout
good luck