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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: dale on July 09, 2009, 09:22:33 PM

Title: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 09, 2009, 09:22:33 PM
1991 neoplan 6v92 with v731  I loose throttle when i place in gear, start up is normal, i have full throttle in neutral/park but loose it when placed in any gear, can anyone help im a green rookie 1st time bus owner.
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: luvrbus on July 09, 2009, 09:31:12 PM
Dale, is your engine and transmission electronic let us know    good luck
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 09, 2009, 09:37:43 PM
Yes its electronic,
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 09, 2009, 09:49:11 PM
The engine is detroit 6v92 with allison v731 auto 3 speed. its a 1991 neoplan i bought from jacksonville transit, i have been doing the interior conversion for 5 months, batterys went down and it hasnt run right since, i have a do not shift light that flashes 3 times, and no check tranny light. thanks
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: luvrbus on July 10, 2009, 05:53:20 AM
Dale, check the grounds on both the engine and transmission and clean all the pin connectors on both      good luck
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: Airbag on July 10, 2009, 08:01:10 AM
Quote from: dale on July 09, 2009, 09:49:11 PM
The engine is detroit 6v92 with allison v731 auto 3 speed. its a 1991 neoplan i bought from jacksonville transit, i have been doing the interior conversion for 5 months, batterys went down and it hasnt run right since, i have a do not shift light that flashes 3 times, and no check tranny light. thanks

Have you checked the battery voltage? I would charge them and check the voltage and the specific gravity in each cell with a hydrometer.
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 10, 2009, 09:09:47 AM
Thanks a million guys i will check these things you suggested, Mr Pete in daytona is helping me also, i have purchased some manuals for both the engine and the tranny from ebay and hope to get familier with them. does anyone know where i can find imfo on neoplan citibus? doing the conversion from a passenger to entertainer type, i gutted the interior and need knowledge of how everything works on these buses. it seems that these city type buses have alot of saftey features that will stop normal opperations dead in there track. Being a carpenter for the last 26 years i found a new love in doing the conversion makeovers, but im struggling on the mechanical aspect, this is enough to make a preacher cuss haha   Thanks Again fellows Dale
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: loosenut on July 10, 2009, 10:32:37 AM
I don't know the extent of their help but Neopart might have some help.  The main part of their business deals with transit organizations.  However, they have one woman who is assigned to work with individuals like you and me.  The number is (800) 827-9287.

Mike
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: MCI-RICK on July 10, 2009, 10:58:22 AM
Dale,

As Airbag said check your voltage.  I've experienced a low voltage shut down before.  I have a 1990 6V92 with the Allison V731 and if voltage gets under 10.75 it will start (barely) but will not engage a gear to move.  You get that empty throttle feeling.

Let us know if you resolve it and how or if you need more help. 

Rick

Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 10, 2009, 11:16:18 AM
Thanks Rick   Does your bus have 2  8-d batterys? how do you keep yours charged?  my bus sat during the winter months as i was doing the conversion and the batterys went down, i had to replace one of them, now i have to disconect the jumper wires to charge them individually. this low voltage could very well be my problem, i fill like a walking example of supidity. ive always been able to somewhat troubleshoot basic auto but man on man these buses are a whole new experience for me. any imput on these neoplans will be greatly appreciated Thanks buddy Dale
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 10, 2009, 11:21:07 AM
Thanks Mike   I will call them, great i have to deal with a women!!! i traded my wife off so i could get a bus  haha!!!!  Dale
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: NJT 5573 on July 10, 2009, 11:27:49 AM
Check the doors, you may have a safety feature. Read and post the engine codes. Read and write down the trans codes, then clear them. Turn off the High Idle. Reset the TPS by flipping the power on and off 10 times from the drivers seat. Try going from reverse directly to drive, mine will let me in sometimes that way if I don't clear the codes.

Keep smiling, you will figure it out!!
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: RTS/Daytona on July 10, 2009, 11:41:06 AM
I talked to dale last week -

Many transit buses have a "THROTTLE INHIBIT" circuit that gets activated with ANY open door

After we talked - He found that he had thrown the Emergency ByPass rear door switch - when he closed up the rear of his coach - reset the switch - everything was fine - for ONE DAY - it's popped up again

The 3 flashes of the "DO NOT SHIFT" light is just the normal "ATEC STARTUP DIAGNOSTICS WORKING" - he has no tranny errors - He believes he has a DDEC cause I asked if he has a shoebox size device on top of his engine - DALE when you read this - If you have a CHECK ENGINE & STOP LIGHT on the dash you can almost bet it's a ddec - or - if your throttle ONLY HAS an electrical cable to it and no mechanical or pneumatic hook up

RTS's will PNEUMATIC hold out the air Throttle on "throttle inhibit" and electrically hold outs the TPS throttle circuit when a door is open

IS THERE A DOOR OPEN LITE ON THE DASH ??


PETE RTS/Daytona
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: MacGyver on July 10, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
On my 60 footer, when I had it, there was a "Door Open Override" switch in the sign bay...

If your bus is refusing to move because of a faulty door switch, you might have such an override feature available to you to find out...

You'd know where to start looking if there's an override and you could move after you hit it...

-Mac
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: NJT 5573 on July 10, 2009, 12:09:13 PM
Get a hand held reader and turn all that junk off!!!
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: MCI-RICK on July 10, 2009, 12:24:13 PM
Dale,

First - Welcome aboard!

My bus has 4 batteries.  I have a 12 volt system and my batteries are connected in parallel.

I take my bus out for a drive regularly so my batteries never get discharged.

Do you have a 12volt or 24 volt system?

If you plan on disconnecting your batteries to charge them individually, first make a diagram of the battery cables showing where each is attached and how it's routed.  You don't want to try guessing later.

Check the voltage of each battery individually when not connected to others.

BTW, Your engine is likely a DDEC 2 and has several safety "shut down" features.  A few are, low voltage, low oil pressure, low coolant & high temp.

You may want to keep your eyes open for a DDR (Diagnostic Data Reader).  It plugs into your bus computer and gives you info on many different items including shut down codes.

You can retrieve codes with out it though.  

Sean has a Neoplan and might be able to provide info or where to get info on yours.  Although Sean's is not a transit.

HTH,

Rick

Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: RTS/Daytona on July 10, 2009, 01:03:15 PM
Dale

Couldn't reach you by phone

The DDEC has a feature called "POWER CONTROL" aka "THROTTLE INHIBIT" - If connector J1A pin H2 was 12volt - the THROTTLE IS DISABLED

either:

0 - find the open door or kneeling switch that causing the problem

0- Find the DOOR OVERRIDE switch (RTS's have it under the dash access panel) - see the other post about the SIGN BAY ??

0- Find the relay that's marked "THROTTLE CONTROL or THROTTLE INHIBIT  or some of that type and REMOVE IT
   removing the relay (will usually) just stops the DDEC J1A - H2 pin from being energize - pull the relay lets it float (like it should if all the doors/kneel switch are closed

0- Last option - remove the wire from the DDEC connector

Pete RTS/Daytona

Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: dale on July 10, 2009, 05:10:35 PM
Thanks for the info guys, im at a point i need to back off a day or so and clear my head, (PETE) man your great guy and have been a hugh help. Its a ddec system for sure, all my dash lights are working properly, and about the electrical panel: shows the basic like lights/blinkers and so on, but most are labled as a part#, im gonna get the neoplan manual from the company you gave me and get familier with intire bus and electrical, at this point im not sure if its not my batterys and low voltage. (NJT) mentioned a hand held reader and turn the junk off, Is this possible? really the only saftey feature i would like to keep is "low fluid levels shut off "" on engine and tranny. (MAC) I do have a rear door overide, i will try it. thanks (PETE) i was able to get the bus in my shop to prep for paint, i think im gonna let the mechanical issue rest a couple of days and clear my head, get my manuals and gain some knowledge first. Im gonna borrow a scan tool and get my meter out after my manuals get here and then get busy eliminating the electrical. I hope your wife is ok!! i traded my wife off so i could buy a bus haha!!! I guess that blowed up in my face!! Thanks fellows i will keep you posted. Thanks a million Dale
Title: Re: Help Please 6v92 731v NO THROTTLE
Post by: RTS/Daytona on July 10, 2009, 06:21:39 PM
Using a PROLINK - I believe the parameter option is "THROTTLE INHIBIT"  (on or off)  - don't remember

but the more I think about it - the more I believe that

MacGyver  has the simple solution --> ".....On my 60 footer, when I had it, there was a "Door Open Override" switch in the sign bay..."

or remove the relay when you find it

just like RTS's


Thanks - My wife is back home after OUT Patient Surgury - feeling a lot better - but tired" - been a long day for me too  - 

Good Nite enjoy your weekend - we'll talk later after you clear your head