My driver's air ride seat got burned in a fire last week and needs new fabric. I also discovered the frame in the back is cracked and wobbles back and forth, plus the air height adjustment barely works. It is getting air. So, I think a new driver's seat is in order.
What are the thoughts on Ultraleather versus cloth for a driver's seat? One truck dealer had all leather seats on display, but the salesperson said a lot of drivers go back to cloth because leather can get hot on the back versus cloth. Isn't Ultraleather supposed to be better in this regard?
I was at another truck parts place and they priced out a middle tier cloth seat from Seats Inc for $550. I was looking at the display models and they had an Ultraleather model from the the next tier up for only $565. I am thinking the Ultraleather seat would be easier to remove the desert dust.
The same dealer also had a cloth National 2000 series seat for just under $400 that might meet my needs, but it almost felt too narroow and I'm not a big guy. My friends might have issues. The Ultraleather seat seemed like it didn't have much support, but not sure how important that is.
I hate to spend a ton of money on a seat, but I don't know that fixing mine would be much less.
I have loved our ultraleather air ride seat, but I know that doesn't help you much.
What is this about a fire?
Expiring minds want to know...
God bless,
John
Personally I like leather but I think that is the key - it is a very personal choice. I think in really hot weather that leather is less comfortable because it doesn't wick moisture away from your body but we try to avoid the really hot (and really cold) extremes. For cold weather you absolutely need heaters in leather seats. The reason I like it is because I tend to keep vehicles for a long time and leather wears so well. In fact a leather seat isn't really properly broken in for about the first 100 thousand miles.
Try a salvage yard. They have lots of choice/inventory these days.
I have gone with high end auto salvage seats. I mated the seat to a plate and kept the elect power. I did that for less than $100. Toyota seats have been the very best and have support I find unparalleled and I have never been able to wear out that fabric. I have leather seats in my current car and I truly love'em but they are DEEPLY dished and bolstered and hugely adjustable and.....they are made by Toy Corp. Get Lexus if at all possible. Those huge Cadillac eats that appear to be better than a Barco Lounger gave me a back ache after less than an hour.
HTH,
John
FWIW Brian ultraleather is a manufactured fabric.
I would go to a truck wrecking yard and look for a National Seat Backcyder model from a KW or Peterbuilt with air lumbar and some are made from real leather.
No car seats for me in a bus even my Lexus seats are uncomfortable after a few hrs in the car buy a good seat you are not driving a car. Good luck
Brian this is one place I strongly urge you to spend the $ to buy the best! Look at all your options carefully and decide which is the most comfortable then go to a truck salvage yard and see what they have! The salvage unit should be NO MORE than 50% of new and will be a good value.
John also has a good suggestion for you on the car seat modified, but I know you are somewhat limited in fabrication ability's and help.
Remember that when you and your friends travel you like to go long distances straight thru and a comfortable seat is a must! It will help you be more relaxed in and out of the seat the whole trip!
;D BK ;D
I've retro-fitted luxury car seats into a variety of vehicles, and it would always be the first approach I would consider - I cannot really ever envisage spending the equivalent of $500-$600 dollars on a new seat in any situation. Having said that though, I have no experience with air-ride seats, so if you are looking for that type (and I am aware they are a very worthwhile thing to have) then the situation changes.
As far as car seats go, I currently have Chrylser Voyager seats in my bus, which are ok, but not brilliant - I mainly got them because they have armrests on both sides, which is very unusual in a car. Being from an MPV the Voyager seats also have a couple of extra functions which are useful in the bus - for instance, when camping I can turn the driver's seat around to use it as an extra seat in the lounge, or even fold the back down and use it as a table.
I had a very poor opinion of the seats in my Lexus, but conversely the seats in the BMW that replaced it (E38 7-series) are superb in all respects once you've got into them (they're a bit too deep to jump in and out of quickly). The BMW seats also have the nicest leather I've known, but as an overall package everything else pales in comparision to Range Rover seats in my opinion - I've fitted these to three vehicles, and also had one as an office chair for quite a while. Range Rover seats would be perfect for use in a bus I think - big and comfortable, but well shaped and supportive for long distances, and with all the adjustments you need including lumbar support and heating etc. The later versions had massage and cooling as well, but I've never had a set with those features myself.
I won't be surprised if I buy another set of Range Rover seats at some point to see if I could find a way of fitting a second armrest to them so I could put them in the bus - but before doing that I should try an air-ride seat on a long journey to see how that compares.
Jeremy
I love my cloth seats. I've had leather in my Corvettes, never really like it. Cold in the winter, hot in the summer. Give me cloth any day.
Bill
Happy 4th of July everyone.
Belfert,
I have a cloth seat and like it for overall usefullness and comfort. My PO had installed this seat, which was from Minn. I forget the mfr. name, but I can get same for you. I believe they were located in St. Cloud, not sure. This is a professional air ride seat and is the cat's behind.
I would suggest that you decide how you might coordinate with other colors & fabrics in the coach.
Good Luck
Gary P
Quote from: John316 on July 03, 2009, 10:08:49 AM
I have loved our ultraleather air ride seat, but I know that doesn't help you much.
What is this about a fire?
I posted about the fire about 10 days ago when it happened. Never got any pictures because my camera battery was dead.
My friend was welding and started a fire in the driver's area. We had draped a painter's drop cloth over the seat, dash, and such. My friend said he had used drop cloths for welding all the time. The drop cloth started on fire and burned the driver's seat, seat belt, and panel behind the driver.
I didn't realize Ultraleather is a manufactured product. I thought they did something to regular leather. Anyhow, it seems to be better than normal leather and it is sure priced like it is better. I have both an Ultraleather couch and a leather chair in the bus. The Ultraleather is certainly nicer, but the real leather isn't bad either.
I really have desire to use a car seat as they don't ride as nice as a real truck seat in my opinion. There is a truck salvage place locally, but I don't want to deal with smoking odors. I'll have to see if I can get down there next week.
I may still fix my seat if there is a way to fix the air valve and the fabric is cheap enough. The frame could probably be welded. (outside the bus!)
You fix the smoking odours while the seat is out of the bus.
Liberal use of your favorite dish or laundry soap, mix strong with some water, soak it in heavy.
Work it into the fabric and the foam.
Let it sit.
Use more.
Repeat some more.
Garden hose to your heart's content.
You'd be shocked at what the dealers use the power washer for on the used cars and trucks before putting them out front...
Might not be a good strategy if the seat has electrical features built into the seat material, no way to tell if those bits have dried out.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I haven't driven 18 wheelers so I'm not familiar with their seats. But the most comfortable driver seat I ever experienced was in a Ford Aerostar. I could drive all day and be comfortable in it. And just me personally, I tend to prefer cloth seats for long drives.
I vote for cloth. I drove a lot of miles in trucks before AC & leather was always hot in summer and cold in winter.
TOM
Thanks for the explanation belfert. I am not sure how I completely missed the whole thread??? Oh, well, I guess I need to take my head out of the sand ;D ;D ;D.
God bless,
John
When we got our ultraleather furniture 4 1/2 years ago we were told it is warmer in the winter than leather, cooler in the summer than leather, will withstand way more abrasion than leather, will not crack like leather, and........believe it or not, is made from PVC plastic. Cleans up using soap and water or you can use 409 if you want. So far it has held up for us really well and we fulltime so it gets a lot of use. Wasn't cheap at the time but i think it was worth the money. Was also told that a square yard of material was $65 at that time, may have come down since then. :)
We have a Bostrom Air Ride with cloth. I really like it! I've had cars with leather and don't like the feel in hot or cold climates. As they age you slide around a lot because the leather is not a supple ( our 94 Lincoln ) . I've been very comfortable with ours, will not change it.
I don't have any experience with the Ultraleather type, so can't comment on that.
I don't like a mushy or too comfortable driver seat, I might fall asleep! ;D
Paul
I have the original drivers seat in my bus that we re upholstered to match the rest. Other than the lack of arm rests it is very comfortable. It would seem to me that buses, like big trucks would have seats designed for long distance driving.
Fred. M
:D Personally, I like cloth, I sweat easily so leather doesn't help much. I've found
that the size of the seat is as important as the fabric and the bells and whistles.
At present, I have a mid - 1970s Dodge Van seat it has all I need, cloth upholstery,
and it fits me like a glove. I'm 5'6" and need a seat that is no deeper 17" not to mention
that the back is the right height for me. There really is more to seats than air ride and
leather. Just my two cents worth.
Blessings,
David
PD 4104-2977
Winton, CA.
I will certainly try a test sit in any seat I plan to buy before I buy it. I know the National seat I sat in seemed like it might be too narrow, but it may just feel that way because it has better support. I really don't know.
I do know that most motorhome driver's seats are too much like Lazy Boys for my taste. I can't see them being comfortable for a long drive.
There is a fairly new upholstery used in truck seats called Mordura. It is a very tough cloth, but looks good and BREATHES! Ultra leather, leather, or solid vinyl does not breath and will cause you to sweat. I always like cloth for these reasons. Good Luck TomC
I'd be interested to know whether anyone has come across a 'stand-alone' air-ride mechanism that can be fitted beneath conventional seats. I can't think why this couldn't be done, but I don't think I've ever seen such a unit.
On the cloth / Ultraleather / leather debate:- I've always liked leather, but we don't have extreme hot or cold temperatures here so it possible I've never experienced the downsides of the material in those conditions. It's worth saying that leather seats can vary tremendously - everything from 'hard and shiney' to 'soft and textured' - but I suppose it's also true that a man-made fabric (eg cloth or Ultraleather) can inevitably be made to have better properties for seating use than the skin of a cow happens to have.
I've never experienced Ultraleather myself, but had always dismissed it as 'yet another' fake leather substitute along the line of horrible PVC-based leatherette or 'leather cloth'. I'm prepared to accept that this is prejudice on my part, and that Ultraleather may be good stuff. Certainly I have been convinced previously of the value of artifical suede (Alcantara etc), so I dare say the technology has moved on from the 1970s
Jeremy
As much as I love the smell and feel of the leather, for driving I am siding on the cloth side.
For one reason, sweating. :-\
Maybe leather with cloth inserts, now thats a winning combination.
Cliff
Jermey, you probably have experienced ultraleather and never knew it check out the skirts on the bottom of leather seats or the leather headliners M/B,BMW,Rangerover,Lexus,GM and others all use the materail.
Ultraleather was delveloped in Europe and used there years before us Yanks starting using it good luck
Quote from: Gary '79 5C on July 03, 2009, 03:07:18 PM
Belfert,
I have a cloth seat and like it for overall usefullness and comfort. My PO had installed this seat, which was from Minn. I forget the mfr. name, but I can get same for you. I believe they were located in St. Cloud, not sure. This is a professional air ride seat and is the cat's behind.
I would suggest that you decide how you might coordinate with other colors & fabrics in the coach.
I did some searching for this manufacturer and it appears to be Comfort Ride USA who seem to be out of business. Their price was over $1,000 it appears which is well out of my league.
I have a mishmash of colors in my bus right now. The driver's seat is some wierd tan color now. The captain's chair and couch on the driver's side are tan while the original bus seats on the passenger side are a dark gray. Considering the driver's area is gray fiberglass I will probably go with a gray seat if I have a choice. I hope to eventually get the bus seats reupholstered to match the couch and captain's chair.
Quote from: belfert
I did some searching for this manufacturer and it appears to be Comfort Ride USA who seem to be out of business. Their price was over $1,000 it appears which is well out of my league.
I have a mishmash of colors in my bus right now. The driver's seat is some wierd tan color now. The captain's chair and couch on the driver's side are tan while the original bus seats on the passenger side are a dark gray. Considering the driver's area is gray fiberglass I will probably go with a gray seat if I have a choice. I hope to eventually get the bus seats reupholstered to match the couch and captain's chair.
Uh Brian wouldn't that weird tan color be called charcoal or burnt now !?! Sorry jest kid'n, couldn't resist!
;D BK ;D
Belfert,
That is the manufacturer you are correct. My seat, the driver's seat that is, is in great shape and if I redo the interior seating this seat will get recovered. My PO was over the top on some things, this being one of them, as I have a reciept for $3,200 for this air ride.
BTW, I would have never paid that much. But it is really great.
It lacks the bidet pedal in BK's Setra, however....
I had the afternoon off today so I went shopping for an air ride seat. I went to a truck salvage place first, but all they had was a bunch of junk. The salvage seats were still in the cabs of wrecked trucks in the yard. The seats were exposed to weather and all in pretty bad shape. This company probably has more seats at their much larger main location, but it is a 4 hour round trip out there.
I found a takeout National seat with the Back Cycler. It was priced really good, but the seat cushion is pretty short. The little usage guide was still attached and it said the seat cushion is supposed to move forward as a standard feature, but it doesn't and the salesman confirmed that it doesn't. I was prepared to buy it until I realized how short the seat cushion is. It even had air bolsters on the seat cushion and the back in addition to three lumbar adjustments.
The Ultraleather seat is really the best value, but I would almost prefer cloth I think. I told one place the price the other place had the same seat for and they said that price would be below normal cost.
Ultraleather or any vinyl will not breathe like cloth. If you want to avoid sweat & sticky burning spot after long driving...cloth is your choice.
It the easiest to clean. Right after spray upholstery cleaner over a section, than you uses a shop vac hose's end with garden hose's sprayer to suck up moisture & foreign dirt or chemicals. The main thing is to first have the vac on before apply fine water spray on so that the vacuum suck the water before it soak too deep to dry. In other word, always move the hose's end & with garden hose spray nozzle as the leader together quickly (speed is important) with both hands...never backward to avoid soaking. You may want to learn the technique on a removable "carpet type" floor mat first.
The Lord willing...Later I will try to post a picture of the set-up...no picture yet.
You can practically sit on right a way.
The same apply to cleaning carpet.
On page 16 & 17, it shows about Fabriform® (http://www.searsseating.com/files/20067AtlasProductGuide.pdf)
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
I don't find the ultra leather to be that hot even living in AZ and a lot easier to clean than a cloth seat.
I have had both and like the ultra leather best.
It is your butt ,seats are like ice cream pick you flavor we are not all the same
good luck
Quote from: Jeremy on July 04, 2009, 01:21:01 AM
I'd be interested to know whether anyone has come across a 'stand-alone' air-ride mechanism that can be fitted beneath conventional seats. I can't think why this couldn't be done, but I don't think I've ever seen such a unit.
Jeremy
Jeremy,
Recently I saw an advertisement for "stand-alone air-ride mechanism" specifically for RVs. I was geeking around and don't remember if it was a print or web ad.
However, this site http://www.suburbanseats.com has a number of options truck, bus, pickup etc. seats. Some of the options have the show a mix and match approach to the seat base and seat. Off road and pickup options are good places to start.
The low rider option shows seats that look like they would fit in a bus.
Mike
But isn't ultraleather made from critters related to Nauga's? And we all know that Nauga's are an extremely endangered species. Especially after that major debacle several decades ago where everything was made from Naugahyde. Millions and Billions of defenseless Naugas were killed for nothing more than their pelts, Why? To make a hot sweaty place to sit for bar fly's and lounge lizards the world over!
Stop this senseless slaughter NOW! Save the Nauga's and their cousins!
And if you don't believe that Nauga's are endangered, just think back and tell me the last time you saw a herd of wild Naugas grazing peacefully in a quiet meadow?
Quote from: Dallas on July 09, 2009, 09:06:47 AM
But isn't ultraleather made from critters related to Nauga's? And we all know that Nauga's are an extremely endangered species. Especially after that major debacle several decades ago where everything was made from Naugahyde. Millions and Billions of defenseless Naugas were killed for nothing more than their pelts, Why? To make a hot sweaty place to sit for bar fly's and lounge lizards the world over!
Stop this senseless slaughter NOW! Save the Nauga's and their cousins!
And if you don't believe that Nauga's are endangered, just think back and tell me the last time you saw a herd of wild Naugas grazing peacefully in a quiet meadow?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi581.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss257%2Fmsullivan106%2Frofl.gif&hash=ae6d45eaacdd3759301093494a38581c5d6b72bb)
I have a new ultraleather that I am going to sell. It is a six way power seat with armrest on both sides,and off white in color. It is still in the wrapper,and is very comfortable. I will take $150.00 for it .Shipping will run about $45.00 (lower 48)
Bill
Quote from: trailblazer2 on July 09, 2009, 06:37:25 PM
I have a new ultraleather that I am going to sell. It is a six way power seat with armrest on both sides,and off white in color. It is still in the wrapper,and is very comfortable. I will take $150.00 for it .Shipping will run about $45.00 (lower 48)
Bill
Bill if it's still available I'd like to take you up on that seat! ;D BK ;D
Quote from: trailblazer2 on July 09, 2009, 06:37:25 PM
I have a new ultraleather that I am going to sell. It is a six way power seat with armrest on both sides,and off white in color. It is still in the wrapper,and is very comfortable. I will take $150.00 for it .Shipping will run about $45.00 (lower 48)
This sounds like a regular motorhome seat and not a truck type seat like I am looking for. It sounds like BK wants it so you might have it sold.
I found out that the parts to fix my seat are $400 for just the fabric so I'm looking for another seat at this point or just putting a cover over mine.
Brian, what seat do you have in the bus right now? Is the cushion burnt?
I have a ISRI seat and I hate it..
Quote from: Zeroclearance on July 10, 2009, 02:10:43 PM
Brian, what seat do you have in the bus right now? Is the cushion burnt?
I have a ISRI seat and I hate it..
I have a Bostrom seat. I found out from calling Bostrom that it is an OEM seat for International. The back is somehow custom for International and the replacement fabric has to be ordered through an International dealer. I got all the part numbers from Bostrom and it came to over $400 for parts when I called an International dealer.
The seat looks like the Bostrom WideRide seats I have seen at dealers. I have seen the ISRI seats online and they are pricey.
The driver side arm rest has the cushion all burned up. The back has the cushion barely singed so that cushion is still good.
Quote from: Dallas on July 09, 2009, 09:06:47 AM
But isn't ultraleather made from critters related to Nauga's? And we all know that Nauga's are an extremely endangered species. Especially after that major debacle several decades ago where everything was made from Naugahyde. Millions and Billions of defenseless Naugas were killed for nothing more than their pelts, Why? To make a hot sweaty place to sit for bar fly's and lounge lizards the world over!
Stop this senseless slaughter NOW! Save the Nauga's and their cousins!
And if you don't believe that Nauga's are endangered, just think back and tell me the last time you saw a herd of wild Naugas grazing peacefully in a quiet meadow?
Where is PETA when you need them???? ;D ;D
I know this is a little late but maybe this can help with your decision. Ultra leather is not Genuine Leather. It is a high grade polymeric vinyl that simulates leather. While it is soft and plyable it still retains the vinyl properties that make vinyl hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Genuine Leather is a natural product and is therefore more comfortable. I like a good fabric because it breaths. Admittedly fabric is harder to clean it can be protected with a product called Fabric-Coate which makes it much easier to clean.
If you are wondering how I know this I have been upholstering for 43 years and have worked with all the materials........Hope this helps......T. Chellis
I decided to buy a fabric seat after considering all the options. I bought it a few weeks ago, but just installed it a few days ago.
The velour version of the seat was $90 less than the ultraleather version of the same seat. It was basically the same price to buy a new seat as to special order replacement fabric for my burned seat. If I could have ordered different color fabric for my seat I would have done that route, but the seat was special for International in only one ugly color.
I just tore out the vinyl RV seats that came with my bus and installed seats from a 2003 GM pickup truck. Cloth, integral seat belts including shoulder belt, very comfortable. The challenge was adapting them to the swivel bases with electric adjustment, and getting the OEM manual adjusters off. Big hammers came out to play... :o
This is too late as well, but for anyone looking for good seats check out Recaro air ride. I have 3, the driver is the only one hooked up to air right now. Very comfortable seats.
Quote from: belfert
I have a Bostrom seat. I found out from calling Bostrom that it is an OEM seat for International. The back is somehow custom for International and the replacement fabric has to be ordered through an International dealer. I got all the part numbers from Bostrom and it came to over $400 for parts when I called an International dealer.
The seat looks like the Bostrom WideRide seats I have seen at dealers. I have seen the ISRI seats online and they are pricey.
The driver side arm rest has the cushion all burned up. The back has the cushion barely singed so that cushion is still good.
Quote from: belfert
I decided to buy a fabric seat after considering all the options. I bought it a few weeks ago, but just installed it a few days ago.
The velour version of the seat was $90 less than the ultraleather version of the same seat. It was basically the same price to buy a new seat as to special order replacement fabric for my burned seat. If I could have ordered different color fabric for my seat I would have done that route, but the seat was special for International in only one ugly color.
Well see Brian you just blew your chance of claiming your bus was part Eagle! (wrong eagle, but still part eagle! Eagle is the name of International's high end model!)
;D BK ;D
I know you have bought your seat and I think you will like the cloth much better than the Pleather. Leather, pleather or what ever they want to call it is not all that great in a commercial seat. Your back and butt sweat like the dickens. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Cloth is definitely the way to go in my opinion. As for brands, the top line Nationals are pretty good, Bostrom makes some good ones, I liked the Tallegedaga Series best. The seat and back are wider for the bigger than average driver. The seat bottom also extends out to support your thighs better. Stay away from the swivel type seats that they spec in Navistars...they are junk and ride terrible. You want to check a couple things when you are looking at them. First you want a seat that has an easy "glide". That's the position that allows the seat to glide back and forth while hitting bumps so that you don't get as much back slap. The other thing to check is the design of the suspension in the base. You want it to look like an X. It will be very square looking. Some brands (and I don't remember which) just pivot in the front and the back of the base is open. These usually have long travel (which is good) but as they wear, when they bounce up and down they also rock left to right making you feel like you are going to fall out of the seat. This is just my two cents on seats. I have had my butt in many over the course of my driving career. Some were good. Others, I would rather have had a milk crate to sit on. My final piece of advice is to go to a large size truck dealer (Peterbilt, Freightliner, etc) and go into the parts dept and try them out. See which one fits you best. While you're there you can ask some of the drivers what they have and how they like it. Plus there are all sorts of chrome goodies to shine up the inside and outside of the bus.