What is the skinny on Bridgestone lately? I've head they have had lots of problems the past few years. I was quoted a price of about $150 less than Michelin and they said all the problems were with car tires.
The most nortorious problems have been with the Firestone brand (owned by Bridgestone). Especially two well publicized ones that made national attention. The first was with a line of passenger car tires called the "500". Second there was a big thing with the Firestone SUV tires on the Ford Explorer. (I owned an Explorer back then, and Firestone footed the bill to swap them out with a set of Michelins.)
I really don't think this would have much influence over my buying a set of Bridgestone bus tires today.
I tried Bridgestones on my trucks-the main problem is that they have a harder rubber compound. That sounds good on paper, and they do have more carbon black to reduce smog affects. But, with the harder rubber, if you do alot of maneuvering in place, you can take a large chunk out of the tire (don't ask how I know this). And since we do alot of in place maneuvering in and around campsites, I would suggest you look at another brand then Bridgestones. You get what you paid for-this is why Michelins are so much more expensive-they have a tire for every type for useage-52 models of on/off road tires for trucks/buses alone! Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on June 09, 2009, 10:43:02 PM
I tried Bridgestones on my trucks-the main problem is that they have a harder rubber compound. That sounds good on paper, and they do have more carbon black to reduce smog affects. But, with the harder rubber, if you do alot of maneuvering in place, you can take a large chunk out of the tire (don't ask how I know this). And since we do alot of in place maneuvering in and around campsites, I would suggest you look at another brand then Bridgestones. You get what you paid for-this is why Michelins are so much more expensive-they have a tire for every type for useage-52 models of on/off road tires for trucks/buses alone! Good Luck, TomC
I just bought two Bridgestone 250's a week ago and only have put 500 miles on them. I'm quite pleased with the ride is plush and the handling is positive.
I think my bus will react different than Tomc's truck. My weights on the front are light and I imagine a truck particularly moving about in a yard could have a heavy front.
I believe Michelin has better advertising and this is why they achieve such high selling prices. The price difference for me between Bridgestone and Michelin was $160 at the same shop.
Mike
At the peak of the Firestone Wilderness tire boondoggle when the company was on the verge of bankruptcy I marched right down to the Firestone dealer which was empty at the time and requested five new Wilderness tires to be mounted on my Ford Pickup. I ran those tires down to minimum tread depth without any problem what so ever. I have since had another set installed that is holding up just fine.
It amazed me that the employees at the Wilderness tire plant chose to go on strike for more money at the time Firestone was on the verge of collapse.
In my earlier post, I mentioned the Firestones and my Ford Explorer. Here's the rest of the details...
My 1991 Explorer came with a set of Firestones on it. I got 45,000 miles out of the first set, with no problems. I probably could have gone more miles, but I wanted decent tread on my 4x4 in the winter.
I chose to put a second set of identical Firestones on it, and ghot another 45-50,000 out of the next set. Still happy, I put on a third set of Firestones, and was halfway through them when I received the recall notice.
Firestone wanted to replace my tires with a different model made by Firestone, but their production couldn't keep up with demand created by the recall. They reluctantly gave me an option to select a competing brand, and I opted for a set of Michelins. I would not have spent the extra money to put Michelins on my aged Explorer, but Firestone footed the entire bill.
I do have to admit, I preferred the Michelin ride and handling over the Firestones, and even my wife noticed the difference. Even so, overall I can't say I was dissatisfied with the Firestones.
I haveta say, I'm with TomC on this one.. I detest the Bridgestone Tires that were sold in the 70's 80's and 90's. I could just about guarantee that my drivers would pump a chunk out of a tire if they were working around in one of those pits we use to call a landing dock.
As steer tires, I could always count on them cupping on the outer edge of the tire, and it required swapping side to side on all 5 of my trucks.
I have never been a Michelin fan, although they are a great tire, I just had more luck with the Continental brand for the heavy haul I mostly did.
I think that no matter what kind of tire you buy for the use we put on these old tin tunnels, you need to think about how it will affect everyone around you if things go terribly wrong.
I think Michelin has had their chance and that its a second rate tire. They are expensive because people in France don't work very hard. Last I knew it was something like a 30 hour week in a job guaranteed for life.
Probably one of Frances greatest accomplishments was the Concorde. Had they not been so protectionist and tried to run the best tires available, those airplanes would likely still be flying today.
When the Michelin tire blew out, causing the fuel tank to rupture, it killed all 109 people on board and 4 people on the ground.
Only then did Michelin step up and say, " we can always build you a better tire".
Quote from: NJT 5573 on June 11, 2009, 08:56:06 PM
.... They are expensive because people in France don't work very hard. Last I knew it was something like a 30 hour week in a job guaranteed for life.
This seems an inappropriate thing to say here on a bus board.
FWIW, Michelin heavy duty tires sold in the US aren't made in France any more than Firestone tires are made in Japan (and you do know that Bridgestone/Firestone is a Japanese company, I presume). ALL of these companies have US plants, generally staffed by union workers. I can assure you, few of those workers are working 30-hour weeks, and none has a job "guaranteed for life."
The only way to know where your tire was made, even if it is a Goodyear (the only major brand still headquartered in the U.S.) is to check the DOT code. All tire brands move product around the world, for a variety of reasons. And some Michelins are, indeed, made in France, just as some Goodyears are made in Japan and many Yokohamas are made in the U.S.
Furthermore, Michelin is a publicly traded company, so while senior management may well be firmly entrenched in France, a good deal of the company is in the hands of U.S. investors, not unlike any global company.
Incidentally, real-world data show that the French have the second-highest per capita hourly productivity of any nation in Europe, behind Luxembourg but ahead of, for example, Germany and the U.K..
Quote
Probably one of Frances greatest accomplishments was the Concorde. Had they not been so protectionist and tried to run the best tires available, those airplanes would likely still be flying today.
When the Michelin tire blew out, causing the fuel tank to rupture, it killed all 109 people on board and 4 people on the ground.
Only then did Michelin step up and say, " we can always build you a better tire".
Umm, the tire on the doomed Concorde blew from FOD contact, which was well-documented. The foreign object in question was later found to have come off a Continental aircraft. It is highly unlikely that ANY tire made to the specifications in place at the time would have survived such a FOD strike. The tires on the Concorde at the time of the crash were actually U.S.-made Goodyears, not Michelins. Goodyear was exonerated in the crash. Michelin was selected to build the replacement tire to a more puncture-resistant specification after the investigation.
I'm actually not a fan of Michelin tires myself -- I don't think the benefits they bring to the table are worth the extremely high premium they demand in price -- that's a personal choice. However, I don't think it's fair or appropriate to be bashing them here. especially on such prejudicial (and flimsy) grounds. Xenophobia, I think, does not become us. Should we also forsake Detroit Diesels because they are German?
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
(Edited to change Michelin to Goodyear in the second-to-last paragraph. I really need to get more precise with my research before posting.)
Sean- current and future Detroit Diesels are American made (with Mercedes-Benz help with design and testing). As a matter of fact, after 2010, Freightliner will be the only American truck manufacturer that offers two engines (Cummins and Detroit Diesel) both based and made in the U.S. Kenworth and Peterbilt will offer the Cummins and their own DAF; International the MAN based Maxxforce engines only; Volvo and Mack will have both Cummins and Volvo. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on June 11, 2009, 10:15:54 PM
... current and future Detroit Diesels are American made ...
I know that, Tom. I didn't say they weren't -- in fact, that was exactly my point. Saying that Michelins are expensive because they are made by a French company is like saying that Detroits are metric because they are made by a German company -- even though both companies manufacture their products right here in the U.S.. Michelin is a French company on paper in exactly the same way that Daimler (owners of Detroit Diesel and Freightliner) is a German company on paper. These are both international juggernauts with operations (and investors) all over the globe -- you can't reduce the complexity of market pricing of tires (or diesel engines) down to a single issue such as the French don't work hard, or the Germans are too demanding.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Hey, and don't forget that Concorde was mostly a British project! Aerospatiale only got involved when the British government started to get nervous abut how much the thing was costing, and cast around the rest of Europe for some help. The French came forward because they had been considering building a supersonic plane of their own design called the Super-Caravelle - but the Super-Caravelle was intended to be a much smaller, short range aircraft and quite unlike the British Concorde design.
I don't have any experience of Michelin tyres, but they made a hell of a mess of Formula One a few years ago.
Jeremy
Back to the tires Bridgestone is Paccar choice (Peterbuilt and Kentworth Trucks) of tires for the new trucks.One guy that was on this board would pay extra to have the Michelin's taken off his new trucks and replaced with Bridgestone.It is all about choice and money I use Toyo's good luck
Does anyone have an opinion as to how a tire could react differently on a bus than on a truck?
To follow the aside about France, in all the countries I've visited France comes closest to sharing the US Americans approach to life. For me it was an amazing discovery. To see the how they mirror us.
While the US and France are different in minor details we are essentially the same on major points. So similar that there are few points you can criticize France about that would not be criticisms of the USA.
Mike
The fact is-is that there are very few products left that are exclusively made and produced in the U.S. with only U.S. products. We are in a world economy (the whole world is in a recession with us), and that's not going to change. Even reclusive North Korea is buying from other countries (like China, Russia, etc). So to say you don't like a tire because of where it is produced is just not logical. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks for all the info. I wound up with a list of 12 quoats and have about decided to buy Toyo's. They are mediam range in price and Consumer Reports rates them fairly good.
As far as I know, Consumer Reports only rates passenger car /SUV tires, so I'm not sure how much that is going to tell you about the tires you plan to buy.
On the other hand, I have personally had a set of Toyos on my bus, and was very happy with them.
It is possible that the Toyos you buy will have been manufactured in Mount Vernon, Illinois. Toyo and Continental Tire operate under one roof there, as a joint venture. (I've been there.) Continental is sinking a lot of money into expanding that plant, ever since they closed their Charlotte facility.
I found 22 and 24 inch tires on Consumers Report's website. The only brands listed under 24 inch were Nitto & Falken which I've never heard of but under 22 inch there were 9 listed of which Continental was #1 and Yokohama was #2. I'm pretty sure they were not testing the same tires that we use but at least it was more info to consider.
I'm pretty sure the 22 and 24 inchers from Nitto, Falken and the consumer site are the low profile SUV or Light truck tires. Probably not anything you would put on a bus. Then again, maybe a set of chrome spinners and a kickin' subwoofer,.... As we say here, DO IT YOUR OWN WAY!