Hey all,
What a couple of days.
Headed out on the first leg of our trip to Stone Mountain, stopped at a rest area and the parking brakes wouldn't release.
Found out the DD3 that I did't replace started leaking past the diaphram and it was enough to not let the pressure build to release the brakes. Luckily I had a decent portable compressor and with it on my shop air input I was on the road.
Another job too take care off when I get home. Don't let it spoil the trip, right.
Stone Mountain was great over the fourth, head out to Cherokee, NC.
A big accident with a two trucks sandwiching a lexus sent us on 76 with many 7-8.5% grades.
Put it in second a climbed fine, though slower than I was used too(my first time in the mountains in the bus)
Coming down a long grade my wife says the bedroom is filling with smoke, after several(long) minutes I am able to find a place to stop.
Find that the decking is on FIRE under the bus by the muffler. I had recently done an onboard fix near the top and the extra pressure from my repair caused a week area in the side to open.
I had just bought a hose hooked to my fresh tank for washing and boy did it come in handy.
We made it down the mountain and into the KOA at Cherokee with only a few minor issues, but at least I am stopped and will survey the repairs needed tommorow.
I am going to try to temp it somehow to get home and then that &*^%$# muffler is going out of there forever.
Anyway, my blood pressure is almost down to 1000/800, wish me luck and I will be giving NCBob a call for some local parts and pieces procurement on Friday
Cliff
Thanks for the post Cliff. Please let us know how this progresses, and if you discover something we need to be on the lookout for!!! Very glad to hear there wasn't a tragic fire. My blood pressure would have been Waaaay high too under those circumstances.
Best Regards, Phil
Cliff,
Glad to hear that it was not any worse. Keep us posted and enjoy the rest of your trip. Jack
Wow! How exciting! :o I'm glad everything turned out ok! ;D Looks like I'll have to turn over my mantle of "OMG YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED!" to someone else ;)! Yipee! ;D hahaha Just kidding! Had the exact same thing happen w/a stick & staple one time. . . sure did get that heart rate up! ;) Christy
Update,
Found I have about a 1' circle of completely burned out of 1" original plywood to the passengers side of the muffler.
My floor is 1' original, 3/4 foam board, 3/4 new.
The CO that could have resulted from the foam board chills my spine.
Spoke to Ncbob this am, we are going to get together on Saturday and get some parts etc....
We are here, safe, and I have a week to repair, or longer if I need.
Thanks for the replies.
Cliff
Cliff,
That is scary!. When ioscyanate foam burns, it gives off cyanide gas, much worse than CO. I guess we all need to really inspect everything on these old girls. Anything this old can have problems and they are easier to repair at home. Glad everything is working out OK. Jack
Cliff,
Cat and I have sent up a prayer of thanks that you and the family are safe!
Please be careful on the rest of your trip, and give Julie and the Kids our love.
Dallas & Cat
I had a freind with a 4905 that the same thing happened to, he was able to get it under control, guess the muffler on the 05 is nothing to fool with. fires are a real nightmare, i had a generater fire yrs ago 3000 miles from home that came very close to getting out of hand ( fuel leak) didnt sleep the rest of the trip.
Frank Allen
4106
So what is the thing to be learned from this? What actually caused all the burning? Was it a hole in the muffler? If so, then I'm thinking muffler inspections need to be diligently performed. I already learned the hard way about fuel line inspections & rubbing hoses against the engine surfaces. :o
Best Regards, Phil
I had an exchange with Cliff (Florida Cracker) in the Chat Room this morning before I went over to AL for the day and another this evening. A side note: Don't depend on Cell phones here in the mountains unless it's Verizon...and the not too much on that! :-\
Thanks to MAK for the Chat Room...it serves multiple purposes..in this case communication where phones don't work. :)
Cliff and family are safe and OK in the KOA in Whittier, NC...about 20 miles from me. I'm planning on picking him up in the AM and we'll move Heaven and Earth to safetly repair everything we can so he can be assured of a safe trip back home. If necessary I'll move my bus out of the barn and we'll put his in for whatever repairs are needed. Like you, I was concerned about the toxic gas from the blueboard or whatever it was he used. :(
We'll take pic's, which I will give to Cliff, and he can assemble whatever scenario he wishes to have to prevent something like this happening to somone else. My first concern was for his wife and the children...his answer was...they're rocks! Somehow I'm sure his way of handling things like this has some bearing on that. ;)
Rest assured that we'll do everything in our power to straighten out any problems, or potential problems he might have.
You'll hear no more from me...I'm just going to try and be 'the good hands people' and get this thing done. Any furthur reports will need to come from Cliff....I'm just a helper. :)
Bob
Thanks for the wake up - the thing I got out of this was the fact that he had a water hose that was able to be used. Sounds like he was prepared ;) I will remember this point...
Danny
Had the same fire in my GMC. Why they placed the muffler in the center cavitiy of the bus 6 inches from the floor is beyound me. I too was lucky to catch it before it spread, but what a pain in the a... location for a muffler. They did move it out in the newer models. Glad you and the bus made it.
Footnote. If I remember, it is held up by one bolt in the center at the top... a real nice thing to get to. I think I cut a hole in my floor, not sure, it was 20 years ago.
mak
Sure glad everything is under control....getting fire out!
Praise the Lord!
Please read new post in regard to igniter's temperature of combustible material.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
UPDATE
Well I was able to get a good look at the source of combustion and it was the muffler.
It had developed a small hole just beyond my original repair and shoot the 700 deg exhaust gases straight up into my plywood floor.
Lesson 1-700 deg gas and plywood don't mix
I will be patching the area with a temporary metal patch and building a metal deflector that will attach to the cross members that they muffler hangs from
The deflector is being made out of flat sheet with a piece of metal roof trim on the edges to help deflect the gas down(if needed) This should protect the floor if any other leaks or my patch don't hold on the way home.
If all else fails I have a 2" metal hole saw and I will turn the bottom of the muffler into Swiss cheese.
I will be removing the muffler for replacement/repair/redesign when I arrive at home.
I would like to thank all who responded, especially the chat room folks(You know who you are) who suggested I take advantage off the situation and have a cook out. ;D
Last but not least I want to thank Ncbob. What a great guy. Comes out and picks me up, takes me all over the mountains to hunt down my material list, loans me some tools, and made my family feel great knowing we have friends in the Busnut community who will go above and beyond when we need there help.
I know this saga isn't over yet, but I feel 100 times better than I did the other day.
Cliff
Cliff,
Every time I leave for a day or so, stuff happens! Sorry to hear of your travails with the bus...sounds like you are resolving problems as they arise.
Glad to hear your exhaust problem is manageable. Isn't this the second time for the exhaust to cause hot-spots? Can the muffler be removed? Use a section of pipe? Don't know how noisy it would be, but it'd be less likely to break.
All new exhaust system would probably outlast the coach. May strip your wallet too.
Both GM and Eagle coach owners gotta keep up with their exhaust systems. They are both adjacent to flammable decking where cracks and leaking will start fires. Didn't Dave Galey have a similar issue with his Eagle?
The exhaust routing and placement is one area where MCI excels...pull a muffler and exhaust pipe from an MC9 in 15 minutes...and the whole system is visible for easy inspection.
What's the deal with the brakes? Were you able to find something to repair the DD3 with?
Hope to see you and Julie and the chil'uns at Timmonsville!
Cheers, JR
cliff, i don't have a muffler on my 04 and itr is not to loud,i am glad you and your family are ok
take care
Bernie
Hey JR,
Yeah, I had a leak before and fixed it without removal and a second one appeared on this trip.
Its coming out when I get home and I will rebulid or redesign the entire situation.
The DD3 has a leak in the parking diaphram and showed up as I was leaving(OF COURSE).
It wasn't a trip stopper so I will replace when I get home.
This is definately Gods country up here, what a beautiful state, and the residents are extremely friendly and helpful.
Bernie,
Thanks.
Cliff
Cliff, I'm so glad your family and bus weren't involved in a total fire. How scary. Sounds like you're getting things resolved.
GMC used to put the mufflers right there under the back lid, between the rad and the engine. That's the way my 4106 was. My 4108, though, is like yours... stashed way under the back blukhead where it's almost impossible to visually inspect. Maybe they did this change to keep engine temps down, but it seems like a recipie for disaster when holes start developing.
Please keep us posted on what you do to remedy your leaks so other Buff owners can be safer.
Brian Brown
4108-216
Longmont, CO
Cliff, I'll make it a point to be in the Chat Room each evening between 8 and 9 PM if you need anything. Hope the repairs and the reunion are going well.
Bob
Brian,
Thanks, And I will post all results and problems.
Bob,
Completed the patch on the muffler and built a deflector that they could be put on the bottom of the space shuttle. ;D :o
The reunion is going great and ends tommorow night. :'(
I would like to share a coldddd one(or two) with you and return the tools you so generously let me borrow.
Either send me a message or a reponse when/where you would like to meet, I am in your debt....Thank you again....
FYI, We will be here until Thurday a.m. until 11:00.
Cliff
Thanks Cliff, now I don't have to have worries about either you and your family or Discovery. There might just be a job over at the Cape for you...have you given that any thought?
I'll be in the Chat Room tonight (Tuesday) until about 9 or early in the morning (about 7) and we can arrange to meet and see if there's anything else I can do to help you and your family return home to Bushnell safetly.
I'll take a chance and put my phone #'s here....Home 828-524-6812 and Cell 828-371-8535.
Let's try to "pop-a-top' tomorrow.
Bob
Hi everyone,
We are safe and home in Florida.
Well the muffler patch and "Deflector" held. :D
Checked it several times at first and only a minor leak at the patch and no hot gases radiating upwards.
Even if I fix the old muffler I am going to leave the deflector in place.
When I drop the muffler I will also cut out the original holding tank which helped dirct the hot gas up and will give me room
should I decide to make a custom exhaust, which is where I am leaning.
Anyway, overall a great two weeks on the road, had fun inspite of the mishap and probably have four or five couples who I met
talking about conversions.
This is sort of a pyramid scheme, hmmmmmmm ;D
Thanks all
Cliff
Quote from: FloridaCracker on July 14, 2006, 02:43:41 PM
Hi everyone,
We are safe and home in Florida.
Well the muffler patch and "Deflector" held. :D
Checked it several times at first and only a minor leak at the patch and no hot gases radiating upwards.
Even if I fix the old muffler I am going to leave the deflector in place.
When I drop the muffler I will also cut out the original holding tank which helped dirct the hot gas up and will give me room
should I decide to make a custom exhaust, which is where I am leaning.
Anyway, overall a great two weeks on the road, had fun inspite of the mishap and probably have four or five couples who I met
talking about conversions.
This is sort of a pyramid scheme, hmmmmmmm ;D
Thanks all
Cliff
Cliff,
Bob and I were just talking about you!
Nothing good, I assure you!
Cat and I are glad you made it home safe, Take care of the Boss and the kids.
Dallas
We're glad to hear that everything worked out well and that you're home safe. We talked to Charley and Cally and told them of your
trip and experiences. Wouldn't be surprised if Charley shows up with some ideas. ;)
We'll be looking for you back in the Chat Room. :)
Bob
Finally dropped the muffler today to eliminate it and build a new custom exhaust.
Thought I would take some pictures of the patch I did on the road and what was underneath it.
Cliff
(//)
This is a shot of the muffler with the exhaust deflector/temp patch to get home
(//)
This is a close up of what I had to do to stop the gases from shooting up to the wood floor....
This would have been simple if my arm wasn't fully extended to reach it....
The muffler is about 16" below the floor and I had to reach thru the elevated bed frame also.
(//)
This picture is with the deflectors removed.
The piece on the left is the patch i welded in before we left to North Carolina.
The hole to the right is the blowout that happended after we were on the road and what caused the fire.
Note the brackets that i had to work around and attach too.
The Black soot is on top of the patch.
(//)
Here is a close up of the hole
(//)
Here is a shot of what was under the original patch
HAY CLIFF!
You have attained the Rank of Hero
Congratulations.
Nick and I set it up a while back that everyone that becomes a hero member has to buy the other hero members a 12 pack of beer and a 100 gallons of fuel.
Now, I'm not too picky, and I'm sure Nick isn't either, so we'll be happy to put some of the cheap fuel in our coaches and I don't mind Milwaukees Best for beer.
We'll be looking for payment, forthwith!
I will add some pictures of the wood damage tommorrow.
And the exhaust setup with a complete list of parts and item numbers for anyone interested in replacing there's.
I hope to have it done by this weekend if I can get the parts. ;D
Cliff
Quote from: Dallas on September 26, 2006, 05:13:15 PM
HAY CLIFF!
You have attained the Rank of Hero
Congratulations.
Nick and I set it up a while back that everyone that becomes a hero member has to buy the other hero members a 12 pack of beer and a 100 gallons of fuel.
[/color][/size][/i][/b]
I sent this to my Attorney...And according to your statement You and Nick owe me the same...So , its a wash as it stands...Ha! Ha!
(//)
This is a view of the Muffler space with it removed...The two close pipes are the inlets and the single is the exhaust...
(//)
Here is a shot of the area that burned.....That is thru 1" plywood...
The silver is the R-7 panel under the 3/4 floor I put in.
The hole in the bracket that crosses the picture is where the muffler hangs
(//)
Here is the burned area closeup
The wire that is crispy and flaking is from my batteries to the starter :P
Cliff,
I have got to pay more attention to the board, I have been working long hours and not really going on much only to scan it etc. I had no idea any of this happened to you, your family and bus. As everyone else I too am really thankful that you are all doing fine and back home. I have no idea when this all originally happened, I have post about it in this thread as of July??
If I had known you were in this predictiment in any way I too would of come to assist as NCBOB did as we are not that far from Cherokee at all. Your right though, thanks to our board busnuts you had assistance as soon as you needed it, thanks from us all Bob for helping out Cliff & Julie and kids.
Making our buses safer is the #1 priority to me as you all know and I try to stress what to look for in my inspections & repairs of my Eagle and pass on as much as I can for everyone to be consious of as I find my problems. Cliff's exhaust problem is something that could of killed them all with just the fumes and then a fire and the thought just makes me cringe.
When and if I get to that point of working on my engine area I do plan to use the (wet blanket) wrap on both of my exhaust from the engine to the undercarriage but because of cliff for a matter of back up & safety I will also fabricate a heat shield over the top of both of my exhaust systems. Don't go telling me it isn't necessary or it can't be done, you know me by now that I will do it and it (Can Be Done) and will be. It is something serious like this that should make us all aware of our older buses and be more observant of what may be wrong and fix what needs to be fixed and don't just assume because everyone (Believes) these old girls should last forever that they will. They might but are they (SAFE)??
I am sorry to have not been there for you and your family Cliff when you were in the mountains not very far from me, thanks for sharing a very important message to us all and I hope you will still be able to come to Timmonsville next week. I thought your DD3's were fixed already when I was talking about never using them on my bus again some time ago on another thread?? Don't let them slide on you any longer.
Good luck to you buddy, take care and be safe.
Gary
Gary,
Thanks for the kind words of concern...I can rest easy at night knowing I have a friend such as yourself out there who I KNOW would be there if needed.
I had already planned to meet Bob and it turned into a rescue.
I am also planning to use the wet blanket when I am done.
On my DD3's...When we talked I had just replaced the one, first day on the trip the 2nd one acted up.....worked perfect the day before....
Gary you are so right about checking everything....I thought I had been very diligent on checking my Bus out, especially mechanically. But stuff happens....
If i had not had that hose on my fresh water system in the back bay we may have been talking about my NEW coach.
Be safe out there
Cliff
Cliff- glad it didn't go any further. GMC's were known for stuffed up exhausts. On my AMGeneral transit, the exhaust manifold has 4" pipe coming to a 5" Y to the muffler and a 5" pipe back out again. Compare that to your system. Maybe a good time to increase to 5" system to relieve your engine of back pressure. Lots of mufflers made in 5" Good Luck, TomC
Tom,
We are thinking along the same lines on expanding the exhaust flow.
I am going to run duals out the passenger side instead of the drivers back corner.
The exhaust out pipes will be increased from 3.5" to 5" with in pipe baffles/muffllers.
My DD shouldl exhale just a little better. ;)
Cliff
Cliff,
Be careful about relieving the exhaust back pressure.
Detroit 2 cycle engines, just like the 2 cycle motorcycle engines, need a certain amout of back pressure to run efficiently.
I've forgotten what your coach engine is, but according to the Field Service Manual, for a 71E and a 71N, you need to have 4.0 In. of Hg at 2100RPM full load. For no load, you only need 2.6 In. of Hg.
Dallas
Quote from: Dallas on September 26, 2006, 05:13:15 PM
HAY CLIFF!
You have attained the Rank of Hero
Congratulations.
Nick and I set it up a while back that everyone that becomes a hero member has to buy the other hero members a 12 pack of beer and a 100 gallons of fuel.
Now, I'm not too picky, and I'm sure Nick isn't either, so we'll be happy to put some of the cheap fuel in our coaches and I don't mind Milwaukees Best for beer.
We'll be looking for payment, forthwith!
Hey Cliff,
I'll settle for a CASE of "diet Michelob" also known as Mic light! LOL! Don't worry about the 100 gallons of fuel, you'll need it to make it to the "TN FALL BUS BASH @ Knuckle's to pay up on the beer! LOL! BK ;D
Quote from: FloridaCracker on September 27, 2006, 07:17:46 AM
I am going to run duals out the passenger side instead of the drivers back corner.
Cliff, I'm all for expanding your flow, just keep in mind that the exhaust out the pax side will be much harder to see any black smoke than the driver's side. Short of a pyrometer, a quick glance for black smoke out the driver's mirror is the easiest way to insure you're not over-fueling on a stock GMC. The pax rear is much "further away" visually from the driver's seat. Just a thought!
Anyways, thanks for the pics and details of the damage and your ongoing project. I'd sure like to make my Buff's exhaust safer, and you're "blazing a trail" here.
Brian
Say Guy's,
I just talked to Luke At US Coach.
He stated that he has the correct muffler and the clamps and exhaust pipes if needed in stock new!
Can ship over night if needed that quick!
Luke's toll free number is 1-888-262-2434.
He also said please don't burn your bus down.
jlv
Hi JL,
I had originally called for prices on the muffler. As I recall around $800.00
There are no NOS, just custom made to original specs.
With the price of replacement, plus the fact I think it was a serious design flaw by GM with the placement of the muffler.
I decided to seek alternatives after a leak almost burned up my dream.
I am building a custom dual exhaust.
Everything will be new past the connection to the pipe off of the mainifolds.
I just ordered the exhaust pipe, fittings and baffle/mufflers and I am real close to $300.00.
I am custom making three brackets to hold the pipes and mufflers.
After seeing my under floor on fire.....I could never put that exhaust back on....
Cliff
Cliff, to echo the words of and old BusNut, who's to prissy to converse with us again, "do it your way".
And I honestly would like to hear from Fast Fred again.
NCbob
Please post the information and required parts and photos on your new reworked exhaust system.
I am interested to see what is required for the change over.
Thanks
jlv
Where the heck is Fast Fred & how is he anyhow, I miss that dude!!
Gary
Based on his last post (as far as I know) he refuses to register on any board for some reason. Afraid that someone will spam him I think, but i do not recall for sure.
Although we had some disagreements several years ago regarding posting incorrect information, he did post some very good information and he did, in general, quit posting some of the data that was erroneous. He is missed by myself and maybe even Ace. LOL
Richard
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on September 28, 2006, 08:33:31 PM
Where the heck is Fast Fred & how is he anyhow, I miss that dude!!
Gary
Cliff,
My MC-8 has a shield over the muffler... I'm sure most MCI's do. The muffler is way down close to the ground. There's also no wood exposed anywhere in the engine compartment. Perhaps you can also add some sort of shield to the muffler and cover that exposed wood with metal. It's scary to think that all it would take to cause a bus fire would be a leaking muffler! Have you started the bus up with no muffler? I'm curious as to how loud it is! ;)
David
David,
Good to hear from you.
On the GM's the muffler is in towards the front of the bus, one bulkhead forward of the engine.
It is mounted almost to the floor and sits vertical.
I built (rigged) a deflector/shield to get home with my muffler leaked.
It really is just in a bad location, of course with the V-drive there wasn't much choice.
And Yes, I will have to fire it up once with the straight pipes out the back ;D
Cliff
It is my opinion that exhaust temperatures can reach 1000 degrees or more. More than enough heat to start combustion in most materials.
Richard
Quote from: FloridaCracker on September 29, 2006, 08:00:58 AM
David,
Good to hear from you.
On the GM's the muffler is in towards the front of the bus, one bulkhead forward of the engine.
It is mounted almost to the floor and sits vertical.
I built (rigged) a deflector/shield to get home with my muffler leaked.
It really is just in a bad location, of course with the V- rive there wasn't much choice.
And Yes, I will have to fire it up once with the straight pipes out the back ;D
Cliff
We installed a pyrometer on our 8V71. Running 65 on flat land, our exhaust temp runs about 650. We have not been on any significant hills yet to see how high the exhaust temp gets. Jack
Quote from: DrivingMissLazy on September 29, 2006, 08:06:05 AM
It is my opinion that exhaust temperatures can reach 1000 degrees or more. More than enough heat to start combustion in most materials.
Richard
Quote from: FloridaCracker on September 29, 2006, 08:00:58 AM
David,
Good to hear from you.
On the GM's the muffler is in towards the front of the bus, one bulkhead forward of the engine.
It is mounted almost to the floor and sits vertical.
I built (rigged) a deflector/shield to get home with my muffler leaked.
It really is just in a bad location, of course with the V- rive there wasn't much choice.
And Yes, I will have to fire it up once with the straight pipes out the back ;D
Cliff
Richard....
NOT...
Hello noise makers.
To get the real deal on the open exhaust, you have to get the motor to go to full fuel.
Motor has to be under load to get full fuel for any extended time.
Hard to do sitting still idling, it only gives the briefest small bark and that's it, as the governor backs it right off.
Take it for a drive around the block and really impress the neighbours!!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Fast Fred has been a member of this board since 19-Feb-06 and was last active 18-May-06 and has made 8 posts. As a matter of fact, he was the fourth member of this board after Phil, Gumpy and Clarke. Quote from: DrivingMissLazy on September 29, 2006, 06:45:53 AM
Based on his last post (as far as I know) he refuses to register on any board for some reason. Afraid that someone will spam him I think, but i do not recall for sure.
Although we had some disagreements several years ago regarding posting incorrect information, he did post some very good information and he did, in general, quit posting some of the data that was erroneous. He is missed by myself and maybe even Ace. LOL
Richard
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on September 28, 2006, 08:33:31 PM
Where the heck is Fast Fred & how is he anyhow, I miss that dude!!
Gary
FF made a brief appearance over on BNO not so long ago, but that was it.
Others say he is active on some of his other hobby boards.
You gotta take a rest sometimes!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
OK....The new exhaust pipes are in.... :D
Even though this wasn't a real difficult job, it was not without its challenges.
If you havn't worked with 4" exhaust pipe, lets say measure 5 times, cut once.
Don't overtighten or do the final snug until everthing is positioned and you are happy with it..
Best to get it looking good at the tailpipe and work backward as this stuff has very little room for play...enough said on that...
I had to weld up a bracket to hold and support the pipe about 16" before they exit the side(see picture)
I still do not have the internal mufflers....knock on wood.....they should be here next week....
I did run it without them......It sounded good(to a motorhead) but, it was too loud....On High idle it drowned out the engine running sound....
Anyway, hope that answered some the questions that may or may not come....
I will post some pictures below this with explanations.
Cliff
(//)
Here is a picture of the original pipes that went into the muffler...
One new down pipe is installed.
(//)
Another angle of the first downpipe
(//)
Both down pipes installed
(//)
Both down pipes from a different angle
(//)
Looking from the side of bus at exit pipes and bracket I made
(//)
Looking at pipes from rear of bus
(//)
View from drivers side with bottom of support bracket
CLIFF,that sure is a great looking job there,I hope that this means that you all will make it to timmonsville this coming week Mike
Those pipes look cool as HE11! Looking forward to seeing your exhaust system!
I believe we can rule out storms...nothing on the weather map at all. Put that place on autopilot and come'on up!
See you in T'ville, JR
Almost forgot the most important view...
From the Side...
Wow Cliff,
Those look too cool!
Maybe I should split the manifold on my 6-71 and put a pair of duals on too!
We sure hope you can make it up here, Cat is all excited to see the kids again and of course, Rosie!
Dallas
Cliff, you got a "Pit" there bud! AND, most important of all...the trusty DeWalt battery powered light (or drill?) sitting in the background! Couldn't get through life without one...or the other! ;)
JR
That was some scare. So glad to hear you are all ok. Great idea for the hose, that's one of those things that will go on the list now.
Having read accounts of some other fires also, and the fact that they usually start at the engine at the other end of the bus where we can't see or smell till it may be too late, has anyone thought of putting a smoke detector in the back bedroom or possibly in the engine compartment itself with a remote alarm? Maybe seems silly, but I bet it is something someone could come up with. FWIW
Great looking work there, Cliff. Kudos for Imagination and Craftmanship! ;)
Let's hope you can hang up your Firefighter and Welding helmets up for a while now and pile the family aboard for a great week end in T'ville.
Our old gal is looking pretty (from the outside) now and has brakes I can't believe. Can't say much for the inside at this point though.
We're hoping to get out of here about mid-day on Wednesday to meet with JR at his home and roll on to Timmonsville about mid morning on Thursday.
May the BusGod's smile on all who venture forth this week for Dallas and Cat's little shindig and may the porker be tender and succulant!
NCbob
Cliff- one thing you might consider is to put some sort of rubber mounting on the new bracket you made that is bolted directly to the bus frame. Two reasons-one is that it will insulate the vibrations from the exhaust to the bus and two- you need to allow the exhaust pipe to move with the engine since the engine rocks and rolls everytime it shifts or during acceleration and deceleration. This could lead to the pipes cracking and leaking again! Where are you installing the muffler? So far all I see are two tail pipes coming directly off the engine? Good Luck, TomC
First, Thanks Mike, JR, Dallas, Novice and NCBob for your comments and compliments.
We can ALL use a little encouragement from our fellow Busnuts. ;)
Tom,
You have a good eye.
The bracket pictures were made right after I first put it together and you cannot see the jack stands holding up the pipe.
I am looking at what I want to put between the frame and bracket as well as the bracket and pipes to allow some flexibility.
I may use some conveyer belt if it can take the heat.
I may even change the bracket to a more overhead position and use a more standard exhaust strap with the built in flexible piece.
The decisions of being your own engineer.
On the muffler, you don't see it because its not installed yet....I am either stepping out on a limb/being a pioneer/or just crazy, you choose, and am going to try an
internal muffler that goes in the 4" exhauxt pipe..There are several companies that make these for Semi's to Diesel pickups...in 4",5',6' or 7"
Mine is supposed to be here by the middle of next week, that will be the "rubber meets the road test".
IM mufflers do not come OEM on anything I could find, they are an aftermarket product that proably would not stand up to the criteria specified for "NEW" vehicles.
Thats why I am putting them in a "OLD" bus ;D
Thanks for your comments.
Cliff
We use those "slip in" style baffles in motorcycle drag pipes.
Ours are simple dimpled pipes. See right thru them, but they take the "crack" out of the exhaust sound. That 8V will sound good with duals!
If you had a turbo on that bus, you wouldn't need a muffler???
Regarding your hangers...what about two matching muffler hangers? Maybe just use the flex and U clamp? They are cheap and will last forever. Most hot-rod shops have 4" and 5" hangers....probably most truck parts suppliers too?
Best, JR
Hey Cliff,
Nice pipes!! :) hope to see you in Timmonsville. You gotta link on the Internal muffler? My old f250 is 'bout due.
8)
Cliff, those things look sweet! Too cool.
Thanks for the updates. I'd love to know how the internals sound... from idle to flull bore, and even with Jakes applied.
Great thread,
bb
Well, after all the excitement of my "sweet" looking new pipes. I have some disappointing news.
The internal pipe mufflers "stink" :'(
They make a cool sound if I was still 18, but add 29 to that and I want "just a wee bit" quieter exhaust. 8)
Maybe fine for the street...but not in a state park.....Rv....Resort..etc....
I have since torn the entire piping system out and have developed a new plan. :o
I welded up a 3 1/2 collector to combine the pipes to a single (which is way easier, the single, not the %&*@ collector)
But, I want DUELs darn it. So I just refigured this whole project and am only not reusing two pieces I will have my duels.
Of course I had to buy another 325.00 worth of parts, 200.00 in mufflers to make it work. Just ordered today :P
I am now looking at 625.00 instead of replacing the 800.00 plus 100.00 shipping original muffler, but no more FIRE trap. :D
And I will have a completely new exhaust from the manifolds out. That would translate to 525.00 for those not having to eat the internals. >:(
It really pained me to tear the first setup out....But I will not settle for anything less than...Works right...Looks right....Sounds right...
Also wanted to tell anyone that is thinking of the internals...FORGET IT......
Those internals will still be on the finished product though....They look cool......Of course, nothing the plasma cutter cant handle or fix... ;D
Cliff
Bummer. :-\ I was afraid that they'd be too loud. I guess a 560+ CI 2-stroker just makes too much "sweet" music to baffle with such a small amount of internals. The size of the OEM muffler attests to that.
But I look forward to your continued forays into a safer exhaust system for Buffs!
bb
Oh yeah,
I found a pretty good supplier online for muffler parts. They also sell other stuff.
https://www.rockauto.com
These guys are 33% cheaper than NAPA on Walker muffler parts.
Use the Walker catalog to figure what you need. http:/www.walkerheavyduty.com (http://http:/www.walkerheavyduty.com)
Very cheap shipping, no add ons.
I saved 130.00 as compared to NAPA on the parts I ordered, after shipping.
Cliff
Cliff- from the pictures I've seen, maybe consider a dual inlet and single 5" outlet muffler of the correct CFM for the engine. Will make for the most muffler in the least area. The muffler on my transit is huge (16" diameter and 60" long). Dual 5" inlet and 5" outlet to interior stack to roof top tip. I have no engine exhaust noise that I can hear over the engine noise. As with a generator, there is no such thing as a too quiet engine. Good Luck, TomC
Well, I got the new mufflers on and gave them a road test before I went down to to the Southeast Cruisers rally last week.
My biggest concern was that to mount the duals where I wanted, I had to give up some road clearence. With that in mind I mounted
them as close to the rear wheel as possible. The curve of the oval mufflers fit perfect in the gap of the radius rod brackets.
I fabricated two brackets to hold them up on flexible muffler hangers. They exit on each side.
The road test worked out perfect and I tried to go over every train track with a hump, every road with a dip, etc to get a good test, No problems.
I am happy to report that I could not hear the exhaust over the engine noise.
Now that I finally have had some success with my little exhaust redeisgn project I will post some new photo's and a parts list on
Sunday or Monday.
Again, Thanks to all for your encouragement, suggestions.......
Cliff
Wahoo! 8) Great re-engineering work, Cliff. Glad to hear that your exhaust project is a success.
Please do upload pics when you get a chance.
Brian B.
Brian,
I got a chance.....8 months later..... :-[
The story needed a conclusion.
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CClifford%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CBus%20pics%20July%5Cbus%20mufflers.jpg)
Cliff
Nice pipes, worthy of showing off
I have had a lot of people ask me for a list of parts I used when I replaced the muffler underneath the floor with the Duals.
Here is the total list of parts needed:
3 1/2 Mega clamp X 8 Part# 33285
3 1/2 ID-OD Connector X 2 Part# 42983
Muffler Hangers X 2 Part# 35103
3 1/2 Elbows X 4 Part# 41366
Tail Spout X 2 Part# 41096
Muffler X 2 Part# 22632
This is all the parts you should need.
It was $418.00 (verified price on 10/24/07) plus shipping. About 81.00 to Fla. Closer will be better.
You can look at the parts in diagram form on http://www.walkerheavyduty.com/
I bought them from http://www.rockauto.com/ who saved me 33% from NAPA.
Compare for yourself and see who has the best deal.
Cliff
Cliff,
Great info!
Thank you,
John
I'll take this opportunity to warn 4104 owners about their mufflers also. I had this same problem with my 4104 with 671 dual exh last year. Luckily my 4104 has a OEM metal deflector on the bottom of the rear access door in the bedroom so all I got was a lot of diesel smoke and no wood or foam smoke!
One muffler had a quarter size hole in the top (the mufflers are mounted vertically) so I replaced it with my own creation using a JCW stock muffler and a short exh pipe extension. As I remember this setup uses 2-1/2" pipe but it may be three inch, don't remember for sure right now. After that job was done I checked the other one for the heck of it and found it was completely rusted out under the clamp to the manifold so I made another set.
The original GM 671 mufflers have a 1/2" vertical flange around the end circumference which is perfect for holding water and rusting out! I replaced these with the smooth end JCW mufflers which are also a bit smaller so they are easier to remove or install and won't hold water or junk. The original mufflers are behind the engine and can just barely be pulled up through the access door. These smaller mufflers also reduced the heat in the engine compartment.