I have agreed to write an engine conversion article for Bus Conversion Magazine based on a seminar that Sonnie Gray and I presented at a couple of Jack Conrad's rallies and one BusN USA rally. This is not a how to do presentation/article, rather a "what to think about" article with information about some of the system fabrication concepts.
As we prepared the first seminar, I began collecting photos of some unusual bus engine conversions. Over the years, I have collected some fun photos. I have posted a few of them at: http://rvsafetysystems.com/Engine%20Conversion.htm now: http://rvsafetysystems.com/engineconversion.htm (http://rvsafetysystems.com/engineconversion.htm) . I hope to add some more of my collection over the next few days.
However, I would love to add to this collection. If you have a couple of photos of unique (and normal :)) conversions, send them to me along with a brief description. I will add them to the website for all to enjoy.
Send them to: jim at rvsafetysystems dot com
Thanks, Jim :)
UPDATE 10/10/09: I have updated the engine conversion web page. See post on page 3 of this thread
Jim
Jim,
Nice pics!
Looks like both the Cummings examples are not running the standard squirrel cage fans.
The big cam looks like large electric motors....Is that correct?
Thanks
Skip
That mc7 of Dave Hennigars with the Cummins looks like its right at home in there. Do you have any more photos or details on fitment on this swap?
Skip, I don't have as much information as I would like on some of the conversions. I have at least one MCI photo where they used a huge 12V motor to drive the fans.
Your conversion looks interesting. Send me a couple of photos if you get a chance.
Jim
George Lawry had a turbo Cummins 903 in his 4106, that coach is still banging around, I spotted it at Quartszite this year.>>>Dan
Speaking of that bus brings to mind the fact that if you buy a bus from anyone on the boards you never get to "own" it, it will allways be "so and sos" old bus, same with aircraft from your home airport, it will allways be someone elses old 182 and so forth.>>>Dan
Jim, Is my ISM/Eaton Autoshift unusual enough for your purposes? If so, I could send you a bunch of pictures. Let me know.
Who is the guy that has a Eagle with the pancake Cummins engine laying on it's side now that one is unusual to say the least good luck
Wow, let me try to catch up.
The Hennigar photo is the only one I have.
Skip, got the photos, thanks.
I toured George Lawry's old coach with him in Quartzsite, but did not think to take pictures of the engine. I will write to him to see if he has pictures.
Brian, I had planned to list your site and my project pages as reference sites. If it is OK with you, I will just grab a couple of photos from your site and make a link to it on my engine conversion page. Your site is great!!!!
Clifford, if you have any thoughts on how to find that Eagle, let me know.
All: I sort of set the stage for this thread incorrectly. I would love to focus on "unique" conversions, but any conversion is welcome. In addition, if you have your conversion documented on a website or a photo site such as PhotoBucket, let me know and I will put a link to it.
This could be a lot of fun!!!
Jim
Couple of cautions- while the 12v fans may work since they look like the old fans from the A/C of the bus, over and over 12v electric cooling fans don't work well (maybe passable in 4 stroke engines, but not with 2 strokers and their large heat rejection).
Also, engines that should not be used for buses- Caterpillar 3208 (not powerful enough and not a very good engine either), Caterpillar 3116, 3126 (not powerful enough), 3196 (had an aluminum spacer plate between cast iron block and cast iron head [one of Caterpillars not so better ideas]); Caterpillar 3408 (large and heavy); any of Cummins V-6 or V-8's (not made anymore and were problematic); Cummins ISB (not powerful enough); any Detroit 2 stroke engine (if you have one-use it, but don't repower with it since they are obsolete engines), International powerstroke (not powerful enough), GM V-8 from a pickup (not powerful enough). Also, in my opinion, the Detroit Series 60, Cummins NTC, N14, ISX, Caterpillar 3406, C15 are all too large and heavy for bus use (I realize they are used and loved, but it will be a harder conversion).
Engines I would suggest for an engine swap are Cummins ISC (330hp and 1000lb/ft), ISL (425hp and 1250lb/ft), ISM (500hp and 1550lb/ft); Mercedes-Benz 4000 series (450hp and 1650lb/ft); Caterpillar C10, C11, C12, C13 (470hp and 1650lb/ft); Volvo 13 liter (485hp and 1650lb/ft); International 570 (365hp and 1250lb/ft). All have more torque than the standard 8V-71 and will get much better fuel mileage. Good Luck, TomC
Tom,
You left out 3306 cat......... (before all the fancy electronic :)
Though if you could find one (a little tall) 1693 :P
Then there is L10 to M11 a lot of those still floating around
Skip
Thanks for the continued input. I have written George Lowry to see if he has any photos.
There was a neat Scenicruiser with Series 60 in Quartzsite this year (see photo). Does anyone have the owner's contact information?
Jim, a link from your site to mine would be great. Also, if you want any pictures I don't have up on the site let me know and I can send you a few. I also have full sizes of all the pictures on the site in case you need a higher resolution photo.
Thanks Brain. I will get with you if I need more detailed photos.
A good friend contacted me off line and gave me the names of the owners of a couple of the buses. The Scenicruiser is owned by David Freedman and George Lowry's bus is now owned by Rex Holcomb.
Jim
Jim,
Pat McNeal, the beautiful stretched red Scenicruiser at the Bussin' rallies now has a series 60 in it. Jack
Tom
Great post on what engine will or won't work for a bus. I can say it helped me alot. Maybe someday i will come across a engine for my bus.
Maybe...someday....but for now, I gotta 'put up with' an ol' 8v-71.
I put a few more conversions on the page. Where I had several pictures, I used a "photo gallary" of thumbnails so the you can see various details.
Any more for the collection?
Jim
What about Catskinner's engine with all the crome.
big john
Sonnie was the co-presenter of the seminars and I have tons of pictures. That is the problem. I need to sort through all of them and pick a few to put on the page.
Have received a couple off line and will get them on the page in a few days. Will be on the road for the next three days and then at a couple of trade shows.
Jim
Jim did I send you the pics of my brothers eagle engine swap? I also have more of the prevost that I cansend you. thanks Kent
Here is a Clipper with a 8V-92. Said it was a 120 mph bus, YEEEE HAW :o He towed his formula cars to the races with it.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk249%2Fskywords%2FPIR09%2F000_0176.jpg&hash=ac6d8c3fc80c45da711f60be19e00e00984292a0)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk249%2Fskywords%2FPIR09%2F000_0175.jpg&hash=2793c0c2f25eac68fef8bbc62f5ff297c8a3b488)
Where's the wheelie bars?
Kent. I only have the one picture of your bus. I would love to have both your brother's bus photos as well as more of your bus.
Airbag, do you know the owner of that great example of an UNUSUAL conversion? I would love to get permission to use the photos you posted.
Jim
Airbag, that Clipper has a 6v92 someone told me it belonged to Jay Leno but I later found out it belongs to Leno's mechanic good luck
Now there's an engine to be proud of.Hey Clifford,Sonja,hows the craw fish,buddy,every one behaving them selves LOL ;D miss you guys already,have fun! :)
Quote from: rv_safetyman on April 30, 2009, 05:07:33 AM
Kent. I only have the one picture of your bus. I would love to have both your brother's bus photos as well as more of your bus.
Airbag, do you know the owner of that great example of an UNUSUAL conversion? I would love to get permission to use the photos you posted.
Jim
It is the bus featured on the latest post "Leno's Fexi" But it really belongs to a race driver named Bernard who you will see in the video. Go to the main All Topics section and you will see it. I have no idea how to contact him but I'm sure he will be back at Phoenix International Raceway in October. Try Google Clipper 6V-92?
Airbag-granted the upper pulley says 8V-92, but it doesn't have the big vibration dampner on the front of the crankshaft. I'd say that's a 6V-92TA-which is still alot of power for a Flx. Good Luck, TomC
If that's Jay Leno's Flx-that engine is a 6V-92TA that has been boosted to 435hp and 1350lb/ft torque. It is quite fast for a bus. Good Luck, TomC
Particularly when said bus only weighs 18000 Lbs.>>>Dan
Check out my link for pictures of my last conversion GMC SDM 5302 and also my current conversion in process an MCI-9 Series 60.
Randy
http://s591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/firstrate/?albumview=slideshow&track=share_email_album_view_click
Randy,
That series 60 sure looks good in your MCI 9. What is the history on this engine? What type of transmission do you have?
John
We used to drive older Flexies in Yosemite National Park way back in 1970 or sooss. They had a big GM gas V6 (466?) of some sort and even with a short 5 speed New Process 542 tranny, the drive shaft was very very short.
Was kinda wondering how a long 8V Detroit would even fit. Also the ground clearance was very iffy with the gas V6 oil pan. Now wondering if the owner just mounted that very cool V6 Detroit higher and used a drop box?
Finally also wondering how much weight is on the rear axle and how little is on the front? Yep...does it have wheelie bars? It might need them. 120 mph? Hummm. I will give him 100 easy. Road manners? Hummm again. HB of CJ
Hi John,
That series 60 sure looks good in your MCI 9. What is the history on this engine? What type of transmission do you have?
We haven't powered up the computer yet so we don't know for sure until we do but what we were told is that it came out of a day cab truck that was totalled out and that it has got 350,000 miles on it, so hopefully it will be somewhere close to that.
Randy
Hi HB,
Finally also wondering how much weight is on the rear axle and how little is on the front?
The back of the bus was stretched two feet to accommodate the motor and transmission as far as weight we don't know yet but the overhang from the tag axle back is shorter than the distance on my GM with a 6v92 TA and a 730 transmission mounted sideways. As far as ground clearance we will be removing the truck pan and using a aluminum bus pan for a series 60 which about 1/2 of the depth giving us more room.
Randy
First of all to those folks who were kind enough to send me photos, I have not had a chance to get them all loaded yet. Hopefully after the Monaco rally that we are doing ends later this week.
Randy, interesting conversion. I would like to grab a photo or two off of your photo bucket if that is OK. Couple of questions. It looks like you have a belt drive to the air-to-air (with some sort or right angle gear box?). Not sure where you radiator(s) are (above?). What transmission are you using? Looks like a raised floor, right?
Jim
Hi Jim,
I would like to grab a photo or two off of your photo bucket if that is OK.
Absolutely help yourself.
It looks like you have a belt drive to the air-to-air (with some sort or right angle gear box?).
No I actually have a hydraulic pump which will run the hydraulic fan and power steering and the power steering pump will come off the series 60
Not sure where you radiator(s) are (above?).
Radiator and charge air are both on drivers side lower like in an eagle
What transmission are you using?
I am using a Allision 748
Looks like a raised floor, right?
Yes I raised it where the bed will be very similar to the pictures I've seen of your eagle.
I will add some pictures of my GMC which was I repowered with a 6v92 and an Allison 730 12 years ago and 115,000 miles later.
Thanks,
Randy
Randy, thanks for the information. One last question: what is the belt pulley on the driver side driving?
Your GMC is sure a great looking fishbowl!!!!
Jim
Jim-Looks like the radiator fan since he converted the radiator down to where it should be from the high mountings. Good Luck, TomC
OK folks. I am updating this thread rather than starting a new one, since it contains some great posts.
I have now completed the "Engine Conversion" article. The first part appears in the October issue of BCM. The second part will be published in Nov.
As a part of that article, I refer folks to a web page I set up to show various "unique" (and a few "normal") engine conversions.
I have just updated that page: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/engineconversion.htm (http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/engineconversion.htm)
I procrastinated doing the update, but I think I posted most of the photos you great folks sent. I decided that since it is snowing here today, I would spend an hour or two to do the update. Yeah right!! >:(. I have my website on two different computers and had to synch them. Tried a fancy program that took a couple of hours and then crashed. When I was loading the page, I crashed the site and had to scramble to get it fixed. My two hour project turned into about 7 hours (kind of like my two hour bus projects ;D).
If anyone else would like to contribute to the collection, send me your photos to: jim at rvsafetysystems dot com
Jim
UPDATE
As I read through this thread again, I see that I missed a few photos.
If anyone has a picture of Pat McNeal's Scenicruiser with the Series 60, I would love to include it. He was at the FMCA Bowling Green event, but he left before I had a chance to take any pictures.
I was not able to get any photos of George Lawry's 4106 with the Cummins 903 (now owned by Rex Holcomb)
I will continue to update the site in the next few days.