Hey guys,
In my quest to find the perfect bus for a miserly price, I found a "Newell Coach" RV and did a little research. Apparently the Newell is very well made and some consider it a bus. What say the bus boys?
Jimmy
Depends on whether the person you are talking to owns a Newell LOL.. We have a friend that has a Newell and swears it is a bus. Per a Newell Ad, Newells never were buses and never will be a bus. That said, they are probably the highest quality motorhome currently being made. Jack
Nah, it's not a bus. It was manufactured specifically to be an RV. It might have some of the same charistics as a bus (maybe has welded steel frame and forward passenger side door), but it's not considered a bus by this crowd.
A bus is a bus ! :D
A newell is not a converted bus. They build it from scratch. So no, it is not a bus. It is a motorhome built to look like a bus.
Richard
Quote from: Beatenbo on July 03, 2006, 10:27:51 AM
A bus is a bus ! :D
Jimmy,
I have a friend that always buy's Newell coaches. He sware's by them, and usually get's a new one every 2-3 years.
He is an owner of a high profile Indy car team and that's the crowd that Newell caters to.
I think they are the Best of the Best!! and I belive that is what their customers demand.
Nick Badame
Hmm, I think the last time I went to the Minneapolis RV show, which was about 3 years ago, there was a Newell sitting across the street with a big yellow sign that said something like "Newell Lemon". It was pretty obvious what message the owner was trying to convey.
I think Newell is typically rated rather highly, but quality is a subjective thing and customer service may not meet the same standards, once purchased. Brian Diehl passed on an article to me recently that talked about all the RVs being sold in the last few years, and how quality and service were not up to par with expectations, and the fact that most Lemon laws don't apply to RVs. It was in a local paper a few months ago. Was quite interesting. They talked about a particular couple who had sold thier home and purchased an RV for well over $400K with the intent of full timing. They had spent most of the 9 months they'd owned it in a service center, or on a hook. Don't recall the brand.
One of the high end manufacturers (might have been Newell) had actually opened a factory service center in CA because the quality of service at the dealerships was so poor.
Gumpy,
That article was in my local paper, also. I think it was from the AP wire service. This lack of quality will become a big issue as more boomers (many who can't turn a screwdriver) buy these rigs as they retire. RVIA and their lobbying arms are desparately trying to keep state legislators from applying lemon laws to their industry. As we read more stories about Aunt Edna and Uncle Henry spending their life savings on a rig and it can't get out of the city limits without a breakdown, etc, we will see more industry regulation and oversight.
I'll keep my 20 year old bus, thank you.
David
Now that you mention it, I think it was printed in the Wall Street Journal.
If someone bought a Newel for $400,00, it must have been several years old. Theri coaches are in the million dollar class. Is a Newel a bus? I don't know and from what I read on the BBS most people with converted buses claim it isn't a bus when they go to the DMV to licence it. Is your converted MC-9 a bus or a motorhome? Like doing a conversion any way you like, you can call it whatever you like.
If you tell a person with a million dollar Bluebird Wanderlodge that he has a converted schoolbus he will get quite upset even though the shelll was made on their schoolbus assembly line and went to a different building for the motorhome parts.
Any ads that I have read for Newell, and I was considering buying one a few years ago, indicate that they build the coach from the ground up with off the shelf drive train plus custom chassis and other parts.
They were never built for use as a bus. They were never built by a bus company. They have always been identified as a custom coach. Never as a bus or as a bus conversion. Me thinks they are a motor home. High class, but still a motor home.
Richard
Quote from: Stan on July 03, 2006, 05:47:16 PM
If someone bought a Newel for $400,00, it must have been several years old. Theri coaches are in the million dollar class. Is a Newel a bus? I don't know and from what I read on the BBS most people with converted buses claim it isn't a bus when they go to the DMV to licence it. Is your converted MC-9 a bus or a motorhome? Like doing a conversion any way you like, you can call it whatever you like.
If you tell a person with a million dollar Bluebird Wanderlodge that he has a converted schoolbus he will get quite upset even though the shelll was made on their schoolbus assembly line and went to a different building for the motorhome parts.
Interesting to note that Canada only allows newer Marathon conversions and newer Newell coaches to be able to be registered there. Yet, any year of Blue Bird is welcome. Good Luck, TomC
I think that is because Bluebird filed the necessary paperwork to certify there buses in Canada so they could sell school buses in Canada. Newell and Marathon probably felt the cost of certification was not worth it until recently. Just "my guess" YMMV Jack
Marathon conversions are based on a bus chassis built by Prevost, especially for the conversion market place.
BTW, if you are ever in the area, a tour of the Marathon facility with 20 or more coaches in various stages of conversion is a truly wonderful sight.
Richard
Quote from: JackConrad on July 04, 2006, 05:18:33 AM
I think that is because Bluebird filed the necessary paperwork to certify there buses in Canada so they could sell school buses in Canada. Newell and Marathon probably felt the cost of certification was not worth it until recently. Just "my guess" YMMV Jack
If yer cat had Kittens in an old oven in the shed, would ay call 'm biscuits??? Just my opinion! BK ;D
Thanks Knuck - that's funny.
Gee Dave, wish I had a 20 year old bus.
Here's my observation. I've traveled a lot of miles, all over the country and all over the world. I've seen GM buses and Prevost buses and MCI buses and Eagle buses - all liveried up and hauling paying passengers. I've seen Orion buses and Dina buses and VanHool buses and Gillig buses, with destination signs and route numbers. I've seen Bluebird buses and Crown buses and Thomas buses and IC buses, mostly haulin' brats to school. I've seen Flxible buses that ain't really that flexible,,, I've probably even seen a couple of kinds of buses I can't remember seeing.
I ain't never seen me no Newell buses, nor any Winnebago buses or Jayco buses or, or, or,,, They must not be buses.
Casper4104 - getting by in a 48 year old BUS.
(BTW - July 4th weekend. Marietta OH to Poquoson VA and back with a little running around while there. 1000 miles, 88 gallons, 11.4mpg. Nice run, no problems except the Basset Hound gettin' bus sick and hurling on an old sleeping bag).
I suspect
you would! LOL
Richard
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on July 06, 2006, 09:52:13 PM
If yer cat had Kittens in an old oven in the shed, would ay call 'm biscuits??? Just my opinion! BK ;D
Quote from: Casper4104 on July 07, 2006, 04:56:37 AM
I ain't never seen me no Newell buses, nor any Winnebago buses or Jayco buses or, or, or,,, They must not be buses.
So, to be a bus, it had to haul passengers, or at least have the capacity to haul passengers...hmmmm I can live with that definition.
Jimmy
Maybe to bring a little logic to the question we could put it this way:
A = Bus
B = Coach
C = RV life
D = A +/- B
therefore, D = C or A or B.
It don't matter to me. I've worked on both and they have the same problems and foilbles.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and poops like a duck and runs like a duck,
It has to be a bus/coach.
The only thing I'm sure it isn't is a travel trailer or a fifth wheel.
Of course it might not be a duck either.
OK, That's my nonsense for the moment.
Dalllas
Jimmy, it's your truck - call it anything you like. When I'm cranking that big wheel trying to do a U-turn in a parking lot I tend to call mine Mabel ("Come on Mabel" - "Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around").
I don't know if a Newell is a bus or not, but I looked at a few, and they're a lot more substantial than the garden variety S&S rig. I love/hate my bus because it's a real piece of heavy-duty, million mile commercial equipment. Love the quality and durability, hate the prices of parts & service - and both are part and parcel to playing with big toys.
The Newell is a lot closer to a bus than to a S&S for sure. Big stuff, quality stuff, strong structure. They're nice. If it's not a bus it's certainly a Coach, and way more than a "Camper".
IMHO-FWIW-YMMV
Casper
I think a Newell is a high quality motorhome.
But that is all it is. A bus conversion is based on a shell that has been tested in public service over millions of miles and has had certifications and inspections fitting for a vehicle that carries people. While a Newell may use similar components and be built as heavy as the typical bus, it lacks the "experience" a builder of buses gets.
If my Prevost has weak points, they will quickly be identified by the commercial operators and the fixes for the flaws will be implemented quickly because the failure to do so could be catastrophic. I doubt that a motorhome builder who puts out 30 or 40 a year and those are rearely driven more than 10,000 miles a year can possible have a product as well proven as the typical MCI, Prevost or other commercial bus.
Does all this mean that a motorhome made from a new Prevost is not a bus. It came from the factory with slideouts and that model never carried passengers and wasn't designed to carry passengers.
Unless a word is trademarked or copyrighted you can apply it to anything. . Remember the Volkswagen combi bus?
I think in the context of how the word is used on this forum, a Newell does not qualify as a bus.
The shells coming new from the factory that never see commercial service are in fact duplicates of shells that are used for commercial service with the exception of certain accomodations for converters that have no affect on the integrity of the product.
Slide shells are and have been used in commercial service. Any search of used Prevost coaches will quickly reveal a fairly large number of Prevost coaches that have been used by entertainers that have slides. These have been pressed into commercial service and rack up hundreds of thousands of miles before they are sold by the leasing company to private owners.
I am in no way suggesting a Newell will have a lifespan equal to the typical S&S, but because of the limited number of fleet miles, if they have a weak point it may not be identified for a number of years, perhaps decades. By then it is unlikely the factory is going to stand behind any repairs. My 97 on the other hand has a fleet history that is measured in millions of miles and any weld failure due to vibration, or persistant corrosion problem, or any electrical gremlin has long been identified and a fix engineered. Owners of an MCI, GM, etc. can have the same comfort.
A very serious problem with any means of transportation, including our buses is the affect vibrations will have on the structure. With the right vibrations anything can be disassembled sometimes with catastrophic consequences Owners of certain models of buses in fact will tell you about certain failure points that need attention. All I am suggesting is a vehicle that meets the definition of a bus as used on this forum is a proven design and is unlikely to present its owner with any surprises.
A Newell is neither a bus or a coach:
http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=coach
http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/bus+
It is a motorized recreational vehicle. The RV industry has highjacked the word "coach" and to a lessor extent "bus", and now they even call pop-up trailers and slide in campers "coaches" (and probably tents, too). What most of have is "converted buses", a new Prevost RV would be an RV made from a new bus shell, and is not a bus conversion.
--Geoff (using the dictionary)
Seems I recall the Newell story involved the owner purchasing a Beck, taking it apart, reverse eng to build his shell on that pattern. Anyone else know of this ?
Also, a couple of years ago a Newell ad stated a useful load of something like 1,054lbs ! I believe the Newell response was that that was only with full tanks. Anyone else recall ?
I had to chime in here-
That was so funny BK! Really great! :D ;D
So what else can I add to this post? ???
I don't know a Newell from a Muwell, but I'm sure they're Coowell!! 8)
My take on Buses (I spelt that right) and R/Vs-Motor-homes is- if it came with a bunch of seats, it's a bus-
Everything else is just that—something else.
Now another point to confuse the issue:
I read where a "Coach" is a bus that was used for distance travel, as opposed to city routes.
Spank me if need be.
I'm off to bed-
Cheers..
Ps-
Casper: All those.......and you didn't mention.......Brill! ;)