If I'm gonna spend all this money I figure if they'll fit why not use the bigger radiators??
Sammy I'm counting on you...
Hi Rick,
Yes, the "8V92" Rads are thicker but, the same size. More rows of copper.
If your going to rebuild rads, I think your money would be better spent on the bigger ones.
Good Luck
Nick-
OUCH!! $1152 to recore one of my 8v71 radiators and $677 to rod and go through the other one. When did brass surpass gold as a precious metal??? I am just sick about spending 2-3K to update my cooling system. I finally understand why 8V92 TA upgrades are so expensive.
I am having one of those "do I really wanna own this moneypit"? days. YIKES.
Why couldn't I just have a nice expensive addiction that I can go to treatment for, instead I'm stuck in here with all you bus-a-holics!!! ;D ;D
I can't think of a better group of "holics" than you folks.
Thanks for your help.... now talk me down from the ledge!!!
RB
I have one like new out of a mci102-a3 at half price.
Jack
Rick, I don't remember if the larger radiator just bolts right in.
What was problem with existing radiators? - overheating, leaking, etc?
Are you located in hot climate area?
Are you planning to repower to a 92 series in the future?
If no repower is planned or you're not pulling anything with the bus why not keep original stock size radiators? - might save a few $$$$ that way. I'm sure folks with similar vehicle will chime in to help you make an educated decision.
First hot,humid day that you're out with the bus and it's runnning at perfect operating temp will make all of this worthwhile.
Best of luck with your homework.
I bolted them into my bus, the biggest problem is the fire wall, they do not fit without denting it in. Most people use a hammer just to dent it in on the outside I believe. If you place these rads in without denting the firewall in a couple of inches you will notice it just does not want to fall into place for the front mount. It is not like you need to destroy your firewall, just a simple dent on one side. The other thing is he rear doors just barely close, however they do close without any mods. The mounts and the rad hoses hook right up.
Have fun!
Sammy we do tow a vehicle and if I was to lose my motor I would upgrade to a 8v92 or a 4 stroke. The reason I began working on my cooling system in general was during that hot spell this summer we were in Colorado and we got up early when it was around 60 degrees and tried to clear the first big pass of the rockies and we were over 200 degrees at the top of the first pass. So after bringing the bus over to Brian Diehl's he explained to me how the whole "negative pressure" cooling system works. After that he pointed out that my bus was leaking all over. So I pulled the shrouds and the blower gearbox and I am replacing the shrouds which were leaky and all the seals. While I was in there I noticed a leak in one of my radiators and I wanted to take all precautions and so I pulled both radiators only to find that the one that wasn't leaking is shot and needs to be recored and the other one needs to be rodded and rebuilt. So rather than rebuild the smaller radiators I thought if I could spend a reasonable amount extra to find and rebuild a pair of the bigger ones I would be able to drive pretty much anywhere without having to worry. That is the thought process that led me here. What say you???
Jack I sent you a PM in regards to the radiator you have..
Rick, sounds like you have a fine plan .
Best of luck with your repairs. :)
The standard thinking is this> If the MC9 radiators are failing or have failed.
Just replace the cores. Do NOT try to have them "repaired" they won't hold up!
A good set of cores ( you change the tanks yourself! ) are generally less than
a grand or so. If you need extra cooling just ask the radiator core people for an
extra row if they don't already provide for that, Most do have more rows anyway.
This thread seems to have been duplicated for some reason....
Check with http://www.generalradiator.com/ and see what they can do for you.
Dave....
The stock rad is adequate for a fresh engine...8V71. The 2 strokes produce much more heat than a 4 stroke when they are old, worn and tired....I am told. Using a 8V92 spec rad will take you far beyond the needs of a fresh engine but how many are fresh and for how long? You are not facing the entire cost of the upgrade as an upgrade. You need new cores any way so the cost of the upgrade is the delta between the two actions.
I would not mix rads from size or used. Both heads operate at their own temp and that gauge in the front is only attached to one. I think we need two gauges up front to this up BROWN. Also, the auto shutdown over temp uses two sensors and each must be tested and the system verified to cut off fuel.
Regarding conversion to 4 stroke: Brian converted to an engine that made lots more HP, he added intercoolers in front of his rads on each side and his temps went DOWN. Evidently, 4 strokes make less heat per HP.....or something. So don't worry about those 92 rads being big enuf.
Sorry to hear about that cost. Break down the rads yourself and rod them. Taking them in for a "dip" shouldn't cost that much.
Good luck,
John
Quote from: RickB on March 06, 2009, 03:01:41 PM
OUCH!! $1152 to recore one of my 8v71 radiators and $677 to rod and go through the other one. When did brass surpass gold as a precious metal???
When they heard you say "I own an MCI, and . . ." ;D
Actually, consider what they have to do. It's not a matter of pulling the bolts, pulling the headers, lather, rinse and repeat. They have to plan on spending several hours dealing with broken bolts, scraping gaskets and then CAREFULLY run a metal strip down each individual tube to floss all the gunk out. It's also a strong possibility that some of the gunk is sealant, which means if they clean it too well, all of the pinhole leaks will return and they will have to deal with them. Then they have to put the tanks back on, however much work they have to do to finish solving the broken bolts.
During the time it will take to do that, they would probably be able to do several car radiators.
Those cores from General look like a good deal. And remember that you can get something for the old cores from a scrap dealer.
Dave,
How long ago did you buy those cores???
I'm hoping it was fairly recent because that is definitely the way I'm going if they are reasonable
Thanks everyone for the info
I got mine in 2005 , You will need to call for a new quote.
copper prices changed a little since then I think.
Many years ago, I bought cores from General. After inspection, I paid to return them because there quality was sub-standard then. There quality may have improved.
I then bought cores for my 8V71 from Diesel Radiator in Chicago - about $1100. I used them but in the Rockies, pulling a car, I still overheated. I did have good sealing around the radiators. Ambient temperatures were 85-107 degrees.
I was disgusted. So, when I installed an 8V71T, I bit the bullet and installed the 102 radiators PN 6K-1-5 from Diesel Radiator (supplier to MCI). They were about $1900 4 years ago. Craig Shepard's site is excellent, http://www.gumpydog.com/bus/MC9_WIP/Mechanical/Radiators_And_Blowers/radiators_and_blowers.htm
With the larger radiators, you either need to cut out some sheet metal and make a patch, or get a sledge hammer.
When I changed to the larger radiator, I also went to the larger fan, and opened the output like MCI did in their later coaches. The fan pulley should be the 7.9" pulley for high air flow.
I did NOT ever want to worry about overheating again. Pay now, or later. I errored and paid twice.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
Ed,
Thanks for the info. I think you lived my worst nightmare by the sound of your email. Spend all that money for an inadequate result, that must have been tough.
One question though, what did you mean by you "opened the output like the later MCI coaches"?. I don't know what that means. Louvering the doors? or getting rid of the adjustable vent things on the scrolls??? I have the larger blower fans but I am a bit reluctant to do the smaller pulley. How do you get the belt adjusted correctly??? It seems like the whole saddle assembly would tend to lean up and back to use the smaller puller. I'm sure I just don't have a firm grasp on the concept yet. Thanks everyone for all your input. I am gonna get this old Bus rolling agaon soon.
Ricks
Rick,
The opening below each squirrel cage fan into the engine compartment is either approx. 7" X 14" or approx. 14" X14". Our MC-8 is 7" X 14". I think ed was referring to enlarging the 7 X 14 to 14 X 14 and installing the larger fans if not already equipped with them. There were 2 different pulley diameters. The smaller pulley spins the fans faster and requires a different belt that is sized to allow proper adjustment. Jack
Thanks Jack for the clarification. I do have the 14X14 openings. Also, thanks for the info on the belt for the smaller pulley. Maybe I'll change that pulley as well seeing how I have it all apart. Had a great talk today with Gumpy who is the resident expert at rebuilding cooling system in MCI's. Tomorrow will be a big day becuase I'll get some info and prices from General radiator and Diesel radiator. I am hoping that their prices are reasonable. Spending almost 2k to fix the smaller radiators doesn't seem like a reasonable option to me when there is mounting evidence that suggests they still won't get me over Eisenhower pass.
My plan is to get the larger radiators and replace all the seals in the back and use expanding foam as well to make it as airtight as possible, I already purchased a new air filter from Luke as well new blower scroll seals. A new pulley and seals for the blower gearbox and an aux Hayden transmission cooler and Colorado here we come!!!
I might be in 1rst gear but Eisenhower is gonna be in my rear view mirror eventually.
Now watch, I'll probably lose my Detroit on Vail pass just because I got so sure of myself!!!
Can you imagine the grief I would get from all of you!!! ;D ;D
Thanks again for all your help folks...
Rick
Wow what a great site, how do I get to the whole site??
Thanks
John
http://www.gumpydog.com/