I'm trying to get most of the things lined up for my conversion. I've already marked out the floor and have purchased my cabinets, countertop, fridge, shower, vanity, etc, all waiting to go in after I get finished with the insulation. As I've posted before, my main objection with my coach is to use it on some weekends and also a couple weeks a year at local camgrounds since I'm still 20 years away from retirement. I've found a super deal on a "240v Maytag Electric 2 Burner cooktop" that will fit right into my countertop in place of the gas cooktop. I would like to stay away from gas if possible and go totally electric since I have no plans to go the boondocking route anytime soon. I plan on using my coach with 30 or 50 amp shorepower 99% of the time. My question concerns going totally electric with 30 or 50 Amp shorepower. Will the 30 or 50 Amp shorepower give me the power I will need to run the coach totally electric? I plan on having two 15000 Btu roof airs and a 10 gallon electric water heater plus the fridge, microwave, and lights. Will this work or am I just day dreaming? I do understand that I would have to use some conservation by going this route like turning off one of the roof units to turn on the stove or take a hot shower especially if on 30 amp service but can it be done??? What I don't want to get into is having to turn off ALL air to cook or shower. Can anybody give me some insight on what I can and can't expect with a total electric coach on either 30 or 50 amp service??? Thanks..
Jimmy
Jim, take it from someone that has a 240v cook top that is not the way to go if you want a electric cook top go with Seward Princess 110 V some campgrounds don't have 50amp service to use the 240v top.I have stacked inverters for 220v and the batteries don't last long when using the cooktop so when we cook it is the generator or a 50amp service and you will need 50 amp service for a electric coach Good luck
What he said. DO NOT lock yourself into 240 volt requirement for something as important as the cooktop. In two years of constant travel I can count on two hands the number of nights we have had 240 V available without running the noisemaker.
My present coach has the setup your thinking about and I can't wait to tear it out! 30A will not run them. I have to run my generator to boil a hot dog. 50A will run them but the vast majority of campgrounds are 30A. In my previous coach I used 120V cooking appliances and it worked out very well. #1 is a convection microwave, #2 is a large George Forman Grill with different plates you can change for waffles or grilling ect... #3 is a portable Magnetic induction cook top that I am very happy with. here's a link http://www.nextag.com/portable-induction-cooktop/search-html This is all I use for all my cooking (except for a small propane grill) When your done with them toss em in a cabinet or drawer for storage and it gives extra counter space too.
I am thinking you cant run a good sized oven without 220/240volts. ( Although you can go with a 110/120 volt microwave convection).But for cook top I am thinking to go with a double burner Induction top. I know they may be a little pricey but have you seen them work?
John
You have a couple of different questions here.
First is, can a coach be run on 30 amps? The answer is, "yes, if it is designed properly to allow you to do so." That's a big "if." We regularly run our whole coach on a 15-amp circuit, and we can go more or less indefinitely on a 20 amp circuit if it's not too hot out. But we invested in a load-sharing inverter and very efficient appliances.
Second is whether to have a 240-volt cooktop, and here, I have to advise against it as others above have. If you really want to go all-electric, my advice is to get a pair of induction hobs, which will run on 120-volt, 15-amp circuits and are the most efficient type of electric burners. You will, however, need steel pots. Plenty of discussion on this topic in the archives.
Without doing unnatural acts like stacking inverters or using buck transformers, you can not run a 240-volt appliance without a 50-amp campground hookup -- 30 won't cut it, because it's the wrong voltage.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
John, in your search if find a induction 2 burner that will work on 110v would you please let me know that is what the wife wants. good luck
If you stay with the 30 amp restriction on the electrical design you will be much happier in the long run. That said, If you treat a 50 amp service as a simple pair of 30 amp services that are split into halves and not try to actually need 220 volts for any appliance you will also be happier.
The problem comes from various concepts of campground wiring issues. Some will provide a 50 am service that is actually 2-lines of 120 volts off the same phase of the main breaker panel. This is a simple 2- circuits and the only thing that you will find is that if you check the voltage between the hot legs of the plug you will not see any voltage. But either to neutral you will see 120 volts.
The correct way for a 50 amp service is using 2-phases of the main supply. Across the hot legs you get 220 volts, each leg to neutral you get 120 volts.
Not all electricians actually know how to read the codes and wire stuff the correct way. That also said sometimes a campground owner will fudge and place 50 amp plugs where the original wiring was for 30 amp single service. ( they run the same hot leg to both terminals of the 50 amp plug.) This is NOT how it's supposed to be.
But if they are cheapos you will most likely find this in many places. They would have had to dig up all the underground wiring and replace it otherwise. $$$$$$ Just keep that in mind.
Each power post in a campground costs hundreds of dollars plus the cost of the underground lines and labor. If something has been buried for years and the needs change on the type of plugs provided, You can bet the cheapest route will be what is done.....
I installed true 50 amp service to 4 of my plugs. Each box has 20 amp@120, 30 amp@120 and 50 amp@ 120/240 .. The problem is that I spent all my money on the first 4 power poles and the large capacity main panel and have been floundering around trying to afford the extra plugs and wiring for the other 10 spots.... :-\ :-\
Stay with the 30amp as the base and you will be OK....
I wrestled with that same idea-since I detest propane and its associated dangers. In the end I went with an RV type stove with 3 burners and a oven (which I'll use again) and a propane 35,000btu furnace (also will use again). Both are cheap to buy, cheap to run, and can get them repaired (no repairs on them yet) most anywhere.
Also off center of most, I went with my bus being wired for straight 120vac-which means I can use 30amp or only one leg of 50amp plug. I still have 6,000 watts of power which is enough to run two A/C's with power left over to run my two water heaters (one at a time), my refer, microwave, etc. While on a 50 amp power pole, I have never tripped the breaker (I have on 30 amp).
I'd really reconsider cooking with electric, but would definetely stay away from 240vac appliances. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: jlink on March 04, 2009, 06:37:20 AMI've found a super deal on a "240v Maytag Electric 2 Burner cooktop" that will fit right into my countertop in place of the gas cooktop. I would like to stay away from gas if possible and go totally electric since I have no plans to go the boondocking route anytime soon.
Rethink.
What will that cooktop do for you that can't be done with a $20 griddle and $20 dual hotplate from Walmart?
These can be set on top of your propane stove and run on 110V. When you aren't in a position to use electric cooking, then you put them in the cabinet and have the propane. This combination gives you the maximum versatility, not only for power source but it also means that you can have 4 burners, big griddle and hotplate all going at the same time, when you have something big going on.
And it's CHEAP, simple and can be replaced anywhere there's a big-box store.
I've been using this system since I began fulltiming last summer, plus a microwave and a convection oven, and it does everything that I used to be able to do in the kitchen of my sticks and bricks house.
Jlink,
We are 100% electric inside and use propane only for outside cooking and backup on the water heater.
Over our many years of RVing and camping we have found that we almost never cook inside. The exception to that is during inclement weather. For those rare occasions I have a convection microwave and several variety's of hotplates/grills as BG6 stated earlier. They are stored in a kitchen drawer and out of the way except when being used. This also has the added value of a very large preparation area in the kitchen not obstructed with the cooktops etc.
The other reason I prefer outside cooking is that when cooking inside, you are in a very small area and those odors will stay inside and absorb into whatever material is inside, regardless of how much venting you have or cleaners you use, they hang in there.
Of course this is all personal preference, just wanted to share another point of view...
Good luck in your choices,
Cliff
Luvrbus,
They have the single ones on e-bay for $100 each. They look great and I bet you could mount them so they would look like a double factory job. $200.00 for safer,faster less power cheap.
John
John, we have the table top models we carry in the bus but I was looking for a unit that would cover the hole in counter top when I remove the cooktop she loves the induction cooking we have one in the house but it is 240v 3 burner good luck
Hi Jimmy,
I also have the two burner 120v from Princess and we love it. Both burners on at the same time is never a problem on a 20a curcuit.
Good Luck
Nick-
For instance
http://www.google.com/products?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS312US312&q=Princess+2+burner&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=vNWuSfrpCYyVngfooJW3Bg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title
Hi FloridaCliff,
You do most of your cooking outside because you don't like the cooking odors, Do you do most ob your bathrooming outside for the same reason? LOL I really don't want to know, but I find some folks logic, shall we say, smelly.
Thanks, Sam 4106
I found that the all electric Marathon that I used last year was more than just a pain. That thing is a power hog and requires power all the time or the windows system shuts down. Seriously, the thing runs on windows Ha ha ha
I could not take out the 50amp stuff in my coach fast enough. I sold it used for what it cost me to replace with new 30 amp stuff. Everything is significantly more costly with 50amp. then try and find a plug in... your genset is your new master.
I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.
Oh ya... cooking outside is a rain or shine event with my family, I will make my little slaves cook in the snow - the least they could do to earn some university money!
>>I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.<<
There ya go, it's up for grabs.
Using a 240 volt cooktop means you HAVE to have 50 amp service (not available everywhere, especially in the small older campgrounds that we like to use). Using a 120 volt cooktop means you can get by on a 30 amp service (much more available, and if you find a 50 amp, you just have extra power available.
Although our coach is wired for 50 amp, we have nothing that requires 240 volt. We have an adapter for pluggin into 30 amp, which is used mouch more than the 50 amp connector. Jack
Quote from: viento1 on March 04, 2009, 01:55:41 PM
I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.
Hey I'm interested in that Princess. Pm sent.
Quote from: Sam 4106 on March 04, 2009, 01:13:21 PM
You do most of your cooking outside because you don't like the cooking odors, Do you do most ob your bathrooming outside for the same reason? LOL I
At least the bathroom is usually in a seperate room with a vent fan. Bathroom odors don't tend to cling to porous surfaces either.
I had a travel trailer before the bus and we did cook inside some of the time. It would stink up the whole trailer if the food had an odor. Your bedroom, living room, and dining room would smell like whatever was cooking. At least at home your kitchen and other rooms tend to be seperated.
My bus doesn't have a kitchen yet so no worries about indoor cooking. We would probably tend to cook outside even with a kitchen as no RV kitchen could realistically cook for nine or more people. We served around 20 to 25 for dinner two years ago. We have a full size propane grill, three burner propane stove that is huge, and a large 24"x18" griddle along with other cookware. We do have a refrigerator in the bus, but we eat sandwiches on the road.
Most of this post has nothing to do with the OP's question. I would not do a 220 volt anything in a bus. As others have said, it is hard to find camping spots with 50 amp service and sometimes the 50 amp service is not wired properly as a true 220 volt. You don't want to run your generator in a campground that has 30 amp (or less!) electric service as a general rule. I wired my bus as 50 amp, but my generator is wired as 110 volt. The generator has two hot feeds and I feed one leg into each side of the 50 amp transfer switch.
I feel propane is the way to go for a stove unless you don't like propane or don't have room for the tank. Electric stoves almost always require a power post or a generator. You're going to drain your batteries pretty quickly with an electric stove unless you have a massive battery bank.
Quote from: DrDave-Reloaded on March 04, 2009, 08:01:44 AM
... The problem comes from various concepts of campground wiring issues. Some will provide a 50 am service that is actually 2-lines of 120 volts off the same phase of the main breaker panel. This is a simple 2- circuits and the only thing that you will find is that if you check the voltage between the hot legs of the plug you will not see any voltage. But either to neutral you will see 120 volts.
And if you find this, DON'T USE IT. It's incredibly dangerous -- if you start drawing anything above 55 amps or so total between both hots, you'll return more current on your neutral than the wiring can handle. At best, this will cause scorching at the connectors; at worst, you'll have a fire that's out of control before you know it.
If you do encounter such a service, and you must use it for whatever reason, then I suggest you purchase or make an adapter that only passes through one of the two hot legs. Alternatively, you can add a 50-amp three-pole breaker in your coach between the shore cord inlet and the main panel, with both hots and the neutral run through the breaker. This will ensure that the breaker will trip if the neutral tries to carry more than the rated 50 amps.
On
Odyssey, we took a slightly different approach. A 240-volt contactor (which will close with as little as 208 volts) only passes the second hot leg through to the main panel if the hot-to-hot voltage is within limits. This is part of our energy management system -- if we are on 30-amp (or less) service, those loads remain disconnected. But the added benefit is that we can not overload the neutral on such an incorrectly wired 50-amp service.
Quote
The correct way for a 50 amp service is using 2-phases of the main supply. Across the hot legs you get 220 volts, each leg to neutral you get 120 volts.
Actually, to be precise, if you get 120 from each leg to neutral, then you will get either 240 or 208 between the hots. If you're reading only 220 between hots, then the hot-to-neutral voltage is likely to be 110.
Quote
Not all electricians actually know how to read the codes and wire stuff the correct way. That also said sometimes a campground owner will fudge and place 50 amp plugs where the original wiring was for 30 amp single service. ( they run the same hot leg to both terminals of the 50 amp plug.) This is NOT how it's supposed to be.
And, as I said, also quite dangerous. This is also a code violation in all 50 states -- I tend to tell the folks to fix them (or be turned in). They can literally burn someone's rig to the ground with this arrangement, and lives could be at stake.
More than once, I've had to take matters into my own hands and rewire a campground pedestal, just to be safe (or get any power at all). I've corrected reversed polarity, disconnected grounds, missing neutrals, and incorrectly sized breakers, among other things.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Quote from: luvrbus on March 04, 2009, 07:38:05 AM
John, in your search if find a induction 2 burner that will work on 110v would you please let me know that is what the wife wants. good luck
Built-in induction cooktops, whether single- or multiple-burner, are significantly more money than the table-top models. This is a market dynamic, not a manufacturing cost, of course.
If you must have built-in, you could go with single hobs, and fabricate a filler piece to go between them, to fill in your existing opening.
Summit makes several (pricey) built-in models. Their single hobs are 120, such as the SINC1-110. They also have a double-hob top that is nominally 240, the SINC2-220.
Now, far be it from me to suggest to anyone that they modify any appliance in such a way as to violate the appliance's listing. However, I strongly suspect (though I have not taken one apart to look) that the actual induction hobs in the SIN2-220 are, in fact, 120-volt items identical to the ones in the single-hob units, and are merely wired between each of the respective hots and the neutral. I'd have to look at a wiring diagram, or take one apart, to be sure.
If this is the case, then you can get away with using this unit by opening it up and double-sizing all internal neutral wiring, as well as double-sizing the neutrals on the circuit supplying it. You would still supply it with a double-pole breaker, but each pole would be fed from the same leg in your panel.
All that said, you'd be violating the warranty on a ~$600 cooktop. For my money, I'd just buy two Sunpentown table-top units, then build a nice "well" for them out of stainless to inset into the counter in place of whatever cooktop you remove. The well will give them a nice finished look, keep the cooking surface even with the countertop, and prevent the units from moving while underway. Just be sure not to block the units' vents. Also, there should be drain holes in the well, so that if a pot of something liquid boils over, the well won't fill up with liquid (which would be really bad when it contacted the electrical innards of the hobs).
YMMV.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
I'm thinking BG6 had the best answer here. You were talking about replacing the propane cooktop but nothing was stated about the oven so I'm unsure as to if you are also needing that. I have little use for our propane oven at the time being but someday may. I use my bus much as you do. The 110 griddles do a great job. Most of the time they would be used is for breakfast when normal electrical use for a/c and such is not as necessary. Nobody says you have to cut a hole in the top to install a cooktop for the time being. You can always get one later or you can also get a small propane grill and stash it below for emergencies. If I could or decide to change my bus kitchen their wouldn't be a cutout in the countertop for anything other than the sink. I'd go with the 110 griddle or a little portable propane grill. Just my take on it. Later
Why would you remove a simple, economical, quick heating gas burner top and go through all the complications of replacing it with an inferior electric one??
Gas is so far superior to electric that it is no contest, I have all gas heat and cooking in my home and bus, neither requires electricity.
Gas is instant heat and instant off and requires no electric power.
It is still usable when electric power fails at home or isn't available in the bus.
Gus, the electric induction is 90% efficient compared to gas 50% and will bring water to a boil while gas is warming . good luck
I can appreciate that some folks do not feel comfortable using LP for their cooking. They do not like the thought of an open flame in a confined space. Also, cooking on an LP stove adds appreciable moisture to the interior with fogging windows, etc.
Having just said that, I still PREFER having my LP range, and would not give it up for an all electric set-up. There is definitely something to be said for not having to rely on shore power or the generator.
When our family camps, we are not always tied to a power pole. In the mornings, I am often the first one awake and like to enjoy the quiet. While my 3 sons and my wife are still asleep, getting my coffee brewing is a high priority. If I used an electric stove top or electric drip brewer, I would need to start my generator. My generator is not very loud at all, but in the dead silence of the sleeping bus, cranking it up might still waken folks. I can light my LP stove and slip the coffe pot on with no one noticing.
Truth be told, I am a strong believer in system redundancy, and I think the ideal system would be: A stove top with two 110v induction burners, and two LP burners, an LP oven below that, and a microwave convection oven overhead.
I am close to that, since I have 4 LP burners, an LP oven, a microwave (not convection) and a few portable electric appliances (griddle, Mr. Coffee, crock pot.)
Even so, my preference is still outdoor cooking. I take along a propane gas grill, a charcoal grill, a 2 burner white gas stove, and a collection of cast iron dutch ovens. Did I say I liked redundacy?
Quote#1 is a convection microwave, #2 is a large George Forman Grill with different plates you can change for waffles or grilling ect... #3 is a portable Magnetic induction cook top that I am very happy with. This is all I use for all my cooking (except for a small propane grill) When your done with them toss em in a cabinet or drawer for storage and it gives extra counter space too.
Very close to what would have been my response.
Some of the disparaging comments about electric burners vs gas not withstanding, I must jump in here. I used to feel the same way as I grew up using a gas stove, and never felt good about the electrics. Having said that, the induction units that Sean and others talk about are superior to gas. They heat faster, shut off instantly and creat far less waster heat in the coach. I do have a well designed battery / inverter / solar / generator electrical system to go with it. I can cook breakfast without ever plugging in or turning on the generator. I like induction so well, I'm going to spend the big bucks and get built in on for my house. The only downside is that you have to have steel or iron pans.
Go check them out, I was an unbeliever until I tried one. Induction is better than gas.
I have an induction style range in my current house (and also the house we lived in before it), and absolutely think it is the way to go. But using this type of system in my bus would require some significant changes to my electrical system. Today, I do not have or need an inverter. My house batteries are limited, as I do not call on them for much. To upgrade my batteries and purchase an appropriate size inverter, I am estimating I'd need to drop $2.5-3K, so I'm going to stick with LP.
I'm not planning on a built in oven... just a two burner cook top. Would the two burner induction units or princess heat units run just off the 30Amp shorepower or would I also need aux. power from inverter or generator to keep from turning off the A/c while using the cooktop???
Jim, the two 2 burner induction tops I have been looking into draw 20 amps on 240 volts and 1 requires a vent and the other doesn't.Here are the 2 I am checking out Diva model DDP2 and the Fagor 1FA30 they both have 2800w for 1 burner and 2000w for the other burner.They are nice but pricey.About the 30 amps some of these guys run 2 Ac's from 30amps but I never could make it work if both Ac's tried to start at the same time it would flip the breaker's 1 ac and the hot water heater would do the same good luck
The portable induction models I have seen are typically 1200-1500 watts (at 110 VAC) for a single "burner". That makes me think a two burner unit will push you well over the 20 amp mark, leaving insufficient amps for the A/C unit on a 30 amp line. You can check the specs on the specific model you are considering, But my seat-of-the-pants says two burners+A/C is doubtful.
Moderator edit: Content removed as per Sam's request.
And, there are exhaust fans that work for kitchen odors too.
If an RV kitchen can't accomadate cooking for 9 people, how is Bigdouginoregon with 8 kids or pacnw with 6 kids going to manage?
Thanks, Sam4106
Thanks Sam, you did the good thing
Gary
Quote from: jlink on March 05, 2009, 05:17:59 AM
I'm not planning on a built in oven... just a two burner cook top. Would the two burner induction units or princess heat units run just off the 30Amp shorepower or would I also need aux. power from inverter or generator to keep from turning off the A/c while using the cooktop???
I see several have already chimed in on this. My answer is: it depends.
Most individual induction hobs are rated at 1500 watts (sometimes less). A few are rated as high as 1800 watts, which is the full draw of a 15-amp circuit. So, conceivably, if you ran two burners at the same time on full power, they could be drawing up to 30 amps if they are both 1800-watt units.
In practice, however, the unit will not be drawing the full current all the time. Induction hobs are generally time-regulated rather than power-regulated, just as microwaves are. So if you select, say, half power, what you get is a hob that cycles on for a second, then off for a second, etc. Again, conceivably both hobs can be in the "on" part of the cycle together, and, if they were 1500-watt hobs, you'd be drawing 25 amps when that happens. If your AC is also running at that moment, drawing (typically) 13 amps, you'd be over the magnetic trip limit for the circuit. If even one of the hobs is running when an AC unit tries to start, you will almost certainly trip the 30-amp breaker.
If you are stuck with a 30-amp service at a campground, then you'd need to adjust your cooking habits accordingly. You can probably get away with running a single induction hob at any setting along with the A/C, so long as you set the A/C to run full time and not cycle on and off -- the starting current will get you every time.
Note that you must equip your coach with a 50-amp service if you have more than one electric heating appliance, such as a water heater and a cooktop. But just equipping the coach that way doesn't mean you'll find 50-amp connections when you need them.
If you are serious about an all-electric coach, you might think about a load-sharing inverter, which makes all of this moot. We cook all the time on battery power alone, and regularly run the whole coach on 15- and 20-amp circuits.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
I have a 4000 watt load sharing inverter. When I am boondocking in a campground woiht no hookup that does not allow genrators before 10 am (such as the Silver Strand in San diego) I cook breakfast. I will run all at the same time my microwave, coffeemaker, toaster and induction hob. I have never had issues (or at least electrical ones). Although the induction hob is just a one burner, so I probably have not rever really been pushing the limits.
OK, I stand humbled by the info on induction burners. I admit that I know nothing about them other than what I have read here.
However, there is always a however; it still requires electric power and, apparently, lots of it or/and a huge battery bank.
What this all boils down to is many bucks and new wiring not to mention all the conversion work. His gas is already plumbed!
Plus, it is not independent like LP.
Quote from: Sam 4106 on March 05, 2009, 11:58:53 AM
And, there are exhaust fans that work for kitchen odors too.
If an RV kitchen can't accomadate cooking for 9 people, how is Bigdouginoregon with 8 kids or pacnw with 6 kids going to manage?
Thanks, Sam4106
I have three burners in my travel trailer. No microwave, no oven. I do have an outdoor drop down two burner stove, but I've only used it once. We managed just fine last year (June - mid Sept). We've done fine so far this year, too. I may get a large electric covered skillet, and am definitely getting a (Zojirushi) rice cooker.
Interesting about cooking with induction. I do prefer cooking with gas, it's easier to adjust the flame to maintain the proper pressure on a pressure cooker (which I use a lot).
Pacnwnomad, aluminium will not work on the induction but my wife has stainless pressure cooker that she uses if a magnet will stick to a pot it will work on induction with presice heat regulation better than gas good luck
I have gas through out. Meets all my needs and then some. Like was said....I want redundancy. My gas furnace is redundant to my little cube heaters. I never use the furnace when the pole is near. Gas water heater has a electric element and I use that gas only when on the road or camped. Elect. fry pan, microwave and hot plate are redundant to my 4 burner gas range and oven. Never used the hot plate and rarely use the skillet. Point being that my lifestyle is not changed/interrupted by travel or camping. It is all GOOD.
On the really "off chance" that any are as ignorant as I was, let me relate: One of the first things I noticed that caught my eye about my "new" RV was that I had these BIG loops of copper tube in my cabinets and storage spaces. It was LP gas line. I wondered that "they" would have been so stupid as to put all that EXTRA copper in the place where it would get bent and flexed and be in the way. I SOLVED that PROBLEM many months later when I had some time on my hands....you know what they say about idle hands being the Devils workshop? Well the exclamation of "I don't understand" should NOT lead to a decision and an immediate course of action. Although R Regan used to say and do that with frightening regularity. (that is not a political statement but a comment on senility). Well genius here opted to pull out all that pesky copper and rerun all the lines and consolidate them by using crimp and ferrule connectors to branch out all the lines and make right angle corners. See, I made it all really pretty and SOOOOO much more efficient. Too soon old! It took me many years to learn that the single lines from the gas manifold was done to eliminate any flare connectors and minimize crimps. Seems that ferrule connectors WILL LEAK eventually and are ill advised in a vibrating/moving environment. The EXCESS tubing was there to eliminate stress on the line due to connecting and disconnecting during the coaches life span.....now going on 35 years. That's 200 bus years for S&S. A wonder, I swear, that I have survived some of my more brilliant moments. 8) There must be a God in Heaven....there must. :)
Go with gas, at least as a backup, and make CERTAIN that it is installed correctly. Propane and CO detectors are a must and fire alarms would also be nice as you have less than 30 seconds to depart.
Best of luck,
John
And I guess one more thing about induction. I find it easier to cook with as you can set the temperature and it will hold that temp within a few degrees. So that's way better than gas as well. Once you understand what temperature certain foods / pots do well with, you can set it and forget it. No need to fine tune the burner. No worries about too hot or not hot enough.
As an example, a classic use of a double boiler is while making sauces, melting chocolate etc - you use the double boiler so your stuff does not get too hot and burn. With an induction cooktop, you no longer need a double boiler to keep that from happening. All you do is set the temp low enough not to burn, and you can leave it on for hours, and it will hold that temp exactly. Chef's delight!!
I suspect that using a pressure cooker would be much easier as well. Once you figure out what temp to set it at to maintain the pressure, you'll never need to fiddle with it again. Instant temp control.
Hi H3Jim,
Do you know of a manufacturer that makes a steel or magnetic stainless steel pressure cooker? Both of ours are made of aluminum.
Thanks, Sam4106
Here's where I lame out. No I don't, I don't even know if anyone makes one.
My wife bought hers at Target the Presto brand I think, Walmart will carry one too. make sure a magnet will stick on some stainless it won't.FWIW Target has a good selection of pans that work on induction tops and are not real expensive plus they sell the induction tops good luck
Sam,
Here are a couple:
http://www.ikitchen.com/chde4ststprc.html?CS_003=740477&CS_010=chde4ststprc (http://www.ikitchen.com/chde4ststprc.html?CS_003=740477&CS_010=chde4ststprc)
http://www.amazon.com/Presto-6-Quart-Stainless-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B00006ISG6 (http://www.amazon.com/Presto-6-Quart-Stainless-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B00006ISG6)
The question, of course, is "will these work on induction?" I have to say that I don't know.
While it is true that any steel pot to which a magnet will stick will work on induction, what is not true is that any pot where the magnet does not stick won't work. (There is a long, complicated technical discussion of why, which I won't go into here.)
So I generally tell people who are interested in induction to take a magnet with them to the store, and stick to the pots that stick to the magnets, if you will excuse the pun. That way, they will be certain the pots will work.
In the case of a specialized item like a pressure cooker, you may simply not find one that will hold a magnet, but most may very well work on an induction hob. The only way to know for sure is to try it. (And, no, generally the sales people in the store won't have a clue if any given pot will work or not; most will just say "hunh?" when you mention induction.)
Perhaps someone reading this thread who has one of these steel pressure cookers can volunteer to try it out. I would take it with me to a high-end appliance store that sells induction cooktops, and tell the salesman you'd like to make sure your pressure cooker will work with the cooktop before you can think about buying it.
Sorry I can't be more specific; we don't have a pressure cooker ourselves.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Quote from: Sam 4106 on March 06, 2009, 11:13:07 AM
Hi H3Jim,
Do you know of a manufacturer that makes a steel or magnetic stainless steel pressure cooker? Both of ours are made of aluminum.
Thanks, Sam4106
Kuhn Rikon is stainless steel, as is the B/R/K. And um - Fissler, IIRC. None of these will be found in a regular store for the most part. They are considered high end, and can be found at specialty kitchen stores (very limited selection IME), or online stores. Pleasanthillgrain.com has a good selection of Kuhn Rikon, and some B/R/K. I like the looks of the Fissler, but have not had a chance to play with that one yet.
My wife has a set of Health Craft 5 ply magnet surgical steel cookware for the house and that is were it stays so we use the cheaper for the bus from Target on the induction top
Again getting off the topic, but why do busnuts tend to have this compulsion about redundancy? Lots of people talk about redundancies for heat, A/C, and other things.
Most of us don't have two sources of heat or two air conditioners (unless window units) in our stick houses. I figure (maybe incorrectly) I would need ten electric cubes at least to heat my house on electric if my gas furnace went out.
"Why do busnuts tend to have this compulsion about redundancy?"
You can screw with my time at home, but don't mess with my play time! ;) Having problems away from home base that might screw up the only vacation you might take for the year or ending up broke down in a foreign country is something to avoid.
And by the way, I do have redundant sources of heat for the home too, four come to mind. Coal, propane, electric, wood. And a generator, actually two generators if you count the bus. I guess the bus could be counted as another back up too.
Maybe I should apply to Homeland Security for a grant to buy one of those surplus new Marathons with a generator big enough to supply my whole block with power and stimulate the economy to the tune of a couple mil. Ya, that's the ticket.
Don 4107
Quote from: belfert on March 06, 2009, 01:38:09 PM
... why do busnuts tend to have this compulsion about redundancy?
1) Unlike being at home, traveling from place to place in a bus keeps changing the rules. Sometimes I can count on "free" electric from a campground pole, some places that's not available. Same goes for pressurized water and a dump station. When you want different choices for different conditions, maybe the term should be "alternatives", rather than redundancy.
2) Many RV systems are notoriously prone to problems. I have twice had a Shurflo water pump failure, but never had a well pump fail at my house (knock on wood). My Suburban propane furnace is currently giving me problems. Although it has been fine for the last year, don't get me started on my Onan generator's history.
3) When I am at home, my bus IS my redundacy for my home systems. But that doesn't work vice versa when I'm 500 miles from home.
4) When I am at home, I know exactly who I can call (and trust) for any repairs I cannot handle myself.
5) At home I have a circle of friends and relatives I know I can count on. I cleared the snow out of six of their driveways for free this week (okay, one of them gave me a case of beer), and I know I could tap them for a favor in a heartbeat.
.... and I DO have redundant systems at home. I have two woodstoves capable of heating my entire home without running my furnace. In addition to the bus' generator, I have a second standalone one I can connect to the house through a transfer switch. You got me thinking about the number of ways I can cook, and my equipment choices (4 propane, 3 white gas, 7 charcoal, 1 wood/coal, countless electric) started getting ridiculous.
Yep, I'm redundant at home, too.