I have a bud that owns a radiator shop and we got talking about cooling and radiators on my MCI 7. I said something about misters. He laughed and said it only will make the situation worse down the road. The water sprayed on the radiator will lime up the fins and tubes on the exterior of the radiator and then you will have even more problems eventually. He's been doing radiators all his life and I sure don't doubt his word. So what do yu guys running misters think? Just curious. Later
Well i don't have them but if i did i would only run distilled water thru them.
I have 15 misters bought from Home Depot in front of my air to air intercooler and radiator. I need them on a hill climb when the temp is over 90. After a trip with using them when I come home (since the misters are hooked into my water system and just using tap water) there will be a bit of calcium buildup on the radiator. I just fill a spray bottle with CLR, spray the air to air intercooler and radiator until it is dripping with CLR, wait 5 minutes (with a cold radiator) and then hose off. No more calcium! Good Luck, TomC
A pump that that pressures up to 80# stops some of the build up it makes more of a vapor than a mist.I don't have the misters but a friend does with a high pressure pump seems to work for him without much mess and doesn't use as much water so I am told
Tom how much of your air to air intercooler is covering your radiator?
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on February 26, 2009, 08:33:42 PM
Well i don't have them but if i did i would only run distilled water thru them.
Ed
Your right distilled water will leave zero residue. I use it to cool myself on my motorcycle. For the intermittant use on hill climbing it would certainly be worth a little cost for it. It can sit in the tank for years and still be clear as a mountain stream. It will not corrode anything.
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Here's a view of the engine and air to air intercooler. The intercooler is centered in the middle of the radiator, so the amount of radiator showing at the top is the same as at the bottom. This is pre misters. Good Luck, TomC
Oh boy I remember a great battle over misters a few years back on BNO. It was amazing... the believers vs non believers, then it got into a tussle on radiator size... eeek I hope it doesn't repeat!
I had misters on my first bus, and on my Crown for a few years before I changed its radiator out to a much larger one. They worked wonders (So does a bigger radiator). I could drop my temp 15 degrees in a matter of 30 seconds. I just used my standard water tanks for the source- never had a mineral build-up problem but then I didn't use them that much...only on one or two nasty grades twice a year.
Tom's suggestion of using CLR (Cal / Rust / Lime Remover) should work very well if you do get deposits, as well as Ed's suggestion of using distilled water if you care to add tanks specifically for that. I'd try just using tap water a few times and see what it gets you. If no deposits happen, you're ok and if they do, you have the fix.
Just a hypothetical question. If one wanted to add a mister to an MCI, could it just be put on one radiator?
Is the water from both radiators mixed before it returns to the motor? If so, then it shouldn't matter as far as that goes, but, misting only 1 gives half the benefit of misting both.
I think the best way to approach misters is to realize it is best utilized as a temporary solution. If you can't install a bigger radiator, it may be your only solution short of reducing the HP produced.
However, reducing the HP is never an option for some. . . . ;)
I can think of nothing wrong with a water system on the radiators. It has been used for years on aircraft with no ill effects. If you can climb the hill at 190 degrees instead of 220 degrees then why not. If I install one on my bus it will be distilled water only. The tap water here in Arizona is really liquid limestone. Filtered water might be alright but I still vote for distilled.
Thanks Tom for the pictures
TomC has a solution....I think. I wonder if CLR has any chems in it that will damage brass, copper or aluminum. Sometimes the darnedest stuff happens. I would be satisfied if CLR responded to an email from a user.
Water ain't water everywhere. The AZ stuff is chewable, Oreygun(W) seems to have superb water and everywhere else is different, better or worse. I think soft water would be just fine even filtering AZ liquid limestone.
Hey! For sure, distilled water is not safe in your tank forever. If you get a load of distilled in your fresh you should add some bleach to impede bacteria growth and algae. The acids that comprise bleach will not do your rad any good long term but I don't know how much for how long and there may be not a scintilla of real risk.... don't know. WELL water is also a no-no without bleach because it isn't chlorinated.
Good luck,
John
If I was going to use a system I would not use the patio systems from HD or Lowes they make a mess.Hayden has a system that works quite well with the higher pressure pump
www.haydenauto.com Why wouldn't RO water work as good as distilled water distilled water is expensive in Az around $1.25 a gal good luck
I have my 15 misters from Home Depot (so I can easily get replacements anywhere in the US) on 4 rows of pipes in front of the radiator. Don't quite understand the statement that they make a mess- if a bit of dripping water is a mess-then maybe. Also, Haydens system has one or two knozzles-mine has 15 (or as many as you want). Haydens has a 2.5 gallon tank-I have my entire 130 gal water system behind it. You choose your system, but I'm pleased with mine-I have been in over 100 degree weather and able to go down the road without overheating. Just have to wash the radiator with CLR after a trip of use. Good Luck, TomC
TomC, everyone does it their way but all the patio styles on buses I ever saw about 1/2 were working and I can see where with 15 heads you would need 130 gals of water I don't have any spray system on my bus and where I live a 100 degree day would be spring time and my bus never over heats here in the Mojave desert or any other place I go.FWIW I saw the law called on a RV with patio misters in a AZ rest area because they thought he was dumping a tank in the parking lot they were so making such a mess true story no bs good luck
Hi TomC,
I'm comfused (happens a lot). Why is it that the small amount of water through your misters causes calcium buildup on your intercooler and radiator but the large amount of water that you use to rinse the CLR out doesn't. Are you using different water to fill your fresh water tank than you use to rinse from your hose?
Thanks, Sam 4106
Quote from: Sam 4106 on February 28, 2009, 09:01:54 AM
Hi TomC,
I'm comfused (happens a lot). Why is it that the small amount of water through your misters causes calcium buildup on your intercooler and radiator but the large amount of water that you use to rinse the CLR out doesn't. Are you using different water to fill your fresh water tank than you use to rinse from your hose?
Thanks, Sam 4106
It is because of the cooling principal called "evaprotive cooling" when the water hits the fins on the radiator it evaporates and lowers the temp. There is very little that will make it past the fins and you will get all the calcium in the tank of water left on the fins. The little water that is used for a rinse with CLR does not contain enough to write home about. It about the quantity of water that is evaporated on the fins. I hope I have explained this OK.
Quote from: Sam 4106 on February 28, 2009, 09:01:54 AM
Hi TomC,
I'm comfused (happens a lot). Why is it that the small amount of water through your misters causes calcium buildup on your intercooler and radiator but the large amount of water that you use to rinse the CLR out doesn't.
The mist evaporates on the hot fins, leaving the calcium sticking to the fins -- it has nowhere else to go. The CLR breaks up and unsticks the calcium, and the hose water flow runs off the COLD fins, taking all of the calcium with it.
Sam, that is the problem with patio type misters a good unit with cool the air without spraying the radiators.My wife's son-in-law has a Hayden on his Allegro and you cannot tell by looking at the radiators that he even has a misting system and 2.5 gals last him 5 hrs good luck
In a previous(old) thread about misters the originator was looking for how much water flow he should use. He kept adding spray nozzles and running the bus up a hill. He only started getting a noticeable cooling affect when he got to 10 or 20 gal per hour. It was an eye opening volume. What hill takes an hour and you carry at least 100 gallons. He was happy and didn't sound like he was off to buy a new rad. I think the amt of water used would depend on how much heat you wanted to reject, at what ambient temp and at what relative humidity and that is not to put too fine a point on it. :P :-\ Boggie's fix of get a rad that's "big enuf" is the only real solution but when rads will set you back a few grand you get inventive and creative. Especially if you are getting cooked and risk cracking a head.
John
My AMGeneral transit bus had a none turbo in it that never overheated. The combination of being a transit and from Portland, Or makes for not as large a radiator as on over the road buses. I have as large a radiator as I could get in. With the extra trans cooler, and vents in the rear door I installed, I can live with the performance with the misters. On my truck, I could pull any hill in any weather with the air ram effect. But a bus is just naturally harder to cool. Good Luck, TomC