I've got the itch to do some inexpensive preventive maintenance on my MC-5 this winter. I thought i would start by replacing shocks and torsion bushings. I know the bushings on the top of the rear axle are nearly impossible to get. The rest look pretty straight forward. After reading the manual a few times, it looks fairly straightforward.
Do you guys have any tricks to share? I can borrow a tool. Obviously i will jack and block the body and then jack and block the axle. But what else? Are there other things I should do while I'm there?
Fred
I am getting my bus ready to head to TX in a week or so, and had the rear bushings changed a few days ago. I had them done at a shop here. It only took a few hours to do all of the rears and i have to say from the short drive home, "Git r done." I cannot believe how nice and smooth the shifts are now, and it should certainly go down the road a lot better.
BTW Fred, i have 8 new bushings that i believe are the same ones that fit your bus if you are interested in them.
Good luck with your project!
You will need a half inch imact, Also I just hammerd mine in the arms with a little grease. I used the rubbers, I dont have any eperience but I am told that the neoprean rides a little rough.
John
I replaced all bushings on my 795C last year with the new hi tech split ones, SLOT CAR !!!! Ride is stiffer and they transmit more road noise but not horrible. I can see where the split bushings would be much easier to install.
Tips, in the manual there are some dimensions for the suspension which should be maintained during assemble, the best way to do this is to do one arm at a time. The use of jacks, come alongs and pry bars makes this easy to do.
I as usual used an angle grinder and carfully cut the nuts off the studs, it is much faster and easier than replaceing a stud!! I started the center rear with an impact because it looked eaiser, I of course broke the first stud I tried :'( Fortunately the shaft comes out and I could work on it in the shop, 2 minutes with a grinder verse 4 hours in the shop..
HTH Jim
I'm not sure it still applies but my 4104 manual explicitly said not to use any lubricant, not even water, for the rubber bushings.
Lin You are probably correct. But without the tiny sliver of grease it was nearly impossible to drive the bushing home.
John
You don't need to work so hard at installing the bushings....
The easiest way is to put the new bushing in the freezer overnight and the next morning borrow a buddies propane weed burner.
Cut out or drive out the old bushing, heat the housing with the weed burner until it's around 250° - 270°F. Grab the cold bushing with a pair of suitable gloves and using a couple of good heavy duty C-clamps along with a couple of metal plates to clamp them on for stability, it will slide right in. But you gotta be quick and accurate... If you get it crooked or are too slow one side will cool and the other will warm, leaving you in the original situation.
Think about how the ring gear is installed on an old Chevy flywheel.. same principle, just a different application.
Good Luck,
Dallas
I did all of them on my 4106. The tough part was removing the solidified rust on the inside of the arm. It was a 1/4" thick and prevented the new bushings from sliding into the arm. I ended up removing each arm from the suspension, putting it in a vise, using an air hammer to chisel the rust away, then a small sanding drum to smooth out the inside. I did that for both ends for all four links in the rear suspension. Ugh. However, what a difference in ride quality when there isn't metal to metal contact in those parts!!!!!
John,
I'm interested in them if they are truly the same bushings becasuse I'll need quite a few and have not checked on price. You have a 4104? Also interested in why you would be going to Texas during the nicest season of the year: the month after we've had NOTHING BUT BELOW FREEZING TEMPERATURES FOR $#!##%%^ 31 !@@#$%DAYS!!!!. What a wimp. Anyways, maybe you'd like to stop by on your way south.
(i'd keep on going if i were you, but you're welcome to use us as your first stop on your way) We're straight south of Monticello 15 miles with 65 acres.
Fred
I notice you are saying an MCI 5, I replaced the bushings on my 5C, I do not know if the A's and B's are the same. MCI sells a split polyureathane bushing, I bought mine from International Bus Parts but cannot locate thier website?? International Bus & Parts in Apopka, FL 1-800-468-5287.
12-1-206CG Radius Rod Bushing - Hourglass Style - Unique 2-piece design for easy installation (1 set will replace two standard bushings)
http://www.mcicoach.com/Parts-Service-Support/coachGuard/polyurethaneSuspension.htm
double check part number befor ordering!!
Much eaiser to install than the OEM ones. No freezeing just install. Put 1/2 of the bushing on each mount, put on radius arm add other half, a plate and locking strip a nut and repete on other end These also come with a lubricant which must be used. The lubricant is really tenacious, I used disposable gloves when handeling it.
Only removeing one arm at a time will make life eaiser for you. On the rear center mount there are two bolts which hold the cylinder in place, loosen the bolts and drive the shaft from side to side to replace bushings. It is difficult but not impossible to do, much eaiser on a 5 than the 40 footers. Actually if I had a 40 footer I would have skipped replaceing those.
The radius rods will take lots of effort to remove, I recall useing a porta power, drilling holes in old bushings, soaking with lubricants, cutting out little pieces of old bushings, pry bars and brute force. Mark use to say there is no job so difficult that it cannot be overcome with brute force and stupidity, this is one of those tasks!!
The holes in the radius rods will likely be very rusty and need to be cleaned up befor reinstalling new bushings.
HTH Jim.
This is something I did not know about at all. Another thing to worry about!
If your rear radius rod bushings are worn, it will make an incredible difference in how the steering feels. I would never have believed it until I did it a few years ago.
John, What type of bushing did you have installed? I replaced all of mine, front and rear with the polyureathane. I wonder if I should have used rubber? Someone told me they had problems with the studs breaking with the plastic, and I had 1 broken stud on mine and saw a MCI 9 with one. Both had a plastic bushing. Tom Y
I am trying to understand the parts we are talking about. I checked out my book. Is the torsion bar referred to the same as the radius arm, the big dog bone shaped bar behind each of the rear wheels? How do you tell if the bushings are bad aside from them falling apart or not being there?
Lin, Yes thats the parts. The rods that hold the axles in place and let them move up and down with the air bags. If they are off center you may want to look farther. Some have run them till there is steel on steel and they will wear out of round. Hope this helps. Tom Y
Fred,
I know my bus is a few years newer than yours, but ... I found it no big deal to replace the rear radius rod bushings. Really, the upper rods were not that hard to remove. You are a pretty resourceful guy. After removing and reinstalling your motor you will have no problem doing this job.
There is the radius rod with an opening on each end into which a bushing fits. this is held in place by two studs and a round metal plate on each end. The plate is fixed and cannot move.The opening on the radius rod and the bushing should be centered on the plate. If you look closely at the end of the arm and see bare metal the arm is moving and rubbing against the plate, this would indicate the bushing is worn.
You can put a block in front of a tire and drive the bus against it obsearving the radius rod if it moves off center of the plate then the bushing is worn.
I am not a bus mechanic, only parroting what I was told. HTH Jim
Thanks, I will take a closer look at it today. I was wondering, if I do not see signs of wear and therefore decide to leave well enough alone, is there any maintenance that could prolong the bushing life like possibly shooting it with silicone spray or greasing it?
It feels like I have hijacked this thread a bit, but at least stayed on course.
I think that no preventative maintenance is required. Almost anything applied to the bushings would probably cause them to deteriate and I seem to recall something about intalling them with no lubricants and the suspension at proper ride height before tightening to get the proper preload. Jack
Lin,
You're not a hijacker.
I've heard that if you can see shiney metal anywhere around the bushing area, they are in need of replacement. I don't have that going on but the part of the rubber bushing that is exposed looks weather checked and cracked. I'm guessing it would be a cheap, labor intensive project; combined with new shocks and front end alignment that would yield significant driveability improvement. (I did king pins and tie rod ends two years ago but never aligned it).
Fred
Fred, sorry for the delay in answering this, but got busy at work right after i told them i was leaving. They had me out driving right up until the day before i left. I know, i feel so bad about my willingness to stick around with you guys and just tough it out, , , it really is not my choice, but my bus had been sitting for a few months and really needed to be exercised!!! Things went pretty well all the way down here with the exception of some throttle issues. I had cramps from trying to push the throttle through the floor. The first couple inches of pedal travel don't even move the throttle. It appears that the outer winding on the cable just lets it stretch some. This caused way more 2nd gear climbs coming through the hills in Arkansas than were necessary. I was told by the shop foreman that my bushings were the same ones they used on the older MCI's. I am not positive they will fit your bus but i bet there is a real good chance they will. He showed me the exact same bushing from his parts shelf. I don't have them on the bus with me, but if you can chk to see if they are the same, we can work it out in a couple weeks when i get home. Fred, i used the original rubber ones. My thoughts are that they will outlast me by many miles and months. My first impressions driving after the change was how smooth the shifts were now. I had never thought that there was any "shudder" while shifting before with the old bushings, but i sure did notice an improvement. And of course it does track straighter down the road now. Hey guys, i see it was 4 below zero at home last night with a -40 wind chill - - jeez!!! I will hoist an ice cold Corona Extra in your honor this afternoon! Take care.
Guys,
Back in the DAY, we had some stuff in a squirt can that was called "rubber lube". We used it on cars that got a lube job. Its purpose was to stop "squeaks". Shock and sway bar mounts have metal and rubber twisting up against each other and that may squeak. In the case of bushings....the rubber is attached to the inner and outer metal and the two should not slip in relation to each other. If they do then the bushing has failed and there will be accelerated wear. When I replaced them on a car I first installed them with the nut not torqued, then lowered the car to "load" the bushing at the "ride height" and only then did I re tighten/torque the clamping nut and "plate/washer". When the wheel sat static the rubber was not under any twist but as the suspension traveled the bush rubber would be slightly wound back and forth but wouldn't tear free from it bond with the metal in the bush. If you tighten the bush with the suspension extended and unloaded you will wind the rubber beyond its design limit and you get premature failure.
Not sure that this was made clear and I am also not sure that I have been clear, as well. Look for that seemingly innocuous instruction to load the suspension "before tightening" or some such. Again, not sure this will apply to all bus bushings.
I have mixed emotions about that hard "plastic" replacement bushings. Feeling more ride shock in the bus and hearing more road noise are definitely bad signs to me. That MCI is using hard plastic as stock items seems to resolve any misgivings...but still. That hard plastic will improve the handling and steering responsiveness is a lead pipe cinch given to me.
2 cents,
John