Folks,
I am finally at my wits' end with frame and alignment problems, which are eating through expensive tires at a prodigious rate. I need to get this thing fixed.
The principle issue right now is that one of my tag axle A-frames (the tag suspension on Neoplans is fully independent, set up the same way as the steer axle) is bent, the result of a careless tire shop putting a jack in the wrong place during a routine tire rotation.
I already have a replacement A-frame, a take-off in relatively good condition from another coach. What I need now is a shop that can replace it for me. Replacing Neoplan A-frames is a bit tricky, and there are no written instructions (in English, at least). So I am looking for a shop that has at least seen one of these puppies, and is willing to do the work (many shops flat out refuse to work on German-built Neoplans).
We are en route from the Atlanta, Georgia area to Phoenix, Arizona, and the ideal answer would be a shop somewhere along our planned route via the I-20 corridor. That's a tall order, so next best would be anyone in the southern half of the country anywhere from Georgia to California.
Please post your suggestions and recommendations here, or email them to me directly.
Thanks!
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sean there is a large and great shop in the Midland area that works on buses and trucks and I will post the number for you Mon when I get to the office.I would also call Prevost in Ft Worth they will have a contact in that area and if you make it to EL Paso Stewart and Stevenson will do the work they do a bunch of bus work I have seen them replacing a 3rd member in a bus like yours before they are on exit 37 east by Flying J
David
Sean,
Just as an option if you want to make a phone call and check service just north of atlanta at the Tn/Ga line is in Rossville is Choo Choo Express Garage 706.891.1242. Old school service that would does good work, used to run a charter service and downgraded to the shop only. If for some reason, you headed towards Nashville, I use Eagle's Nest Coach. Call and ask for the owner Mark 615.242.7241. If he can help he will, or send you in the right direction.
Evan
Nashville, TN
Sean,
The offer here still stands. But I understand we are sorta out of route, and ya never know what kinda schedule we have ahead of time. I do know how to change them as they are just like the front of a Setra, and have done one before.
OK since we know your trying to run I-20 you should give Tejas Coach Works in Mineral Wells, TX a call
940-325-2332. They are known for quality work and I know they have some experience with Neoplans (don't know how much), but they are right on your way!
FWIW ;D BK ;D
Sean,
We've (Ray Cox's Coach Services) had good service from a shop called Alignment & Frame Service Co. Address is 2441 Main St, East Point, GA. Phone: (404) 767-1516. They specialize in HD vehicles. East Point is a south west suburb of Atlanta, inside the perimeter, near the airport. We have used them many times for bus alignments and wheel balancing.
I don't know if their experience extends to Neoplans, but you could certainly call and ask them before you leave town.
Bob
Sean, here's one from my Bus Garage Index:
Cummins Alabama
Birmingham,Alabama
205-841-0421
www.atlantic.cummins.com
Says they are familiarwith Eagle,GMC,MCI,Neoplan,Prevost,Setra.
I am not associated with them in any way, nor do I have any idea of work they do.
Just a suggestion from the book. I can look up other places in other areas for you if you'd like, just let me know. Good luck with your search.
Sean,
I am not familiar with a Neoplan components, but I would expect the A frame (control arm) to be a forging or casting. I would expect that the chassis mounting points are more likely to bend, than the A frame itself. That said, with new part in hand, I would go to an alignment shop that could align the rear tag axle, and had frame bending capabilities also.
I could not find anyone near me in Michigan with the rear alignment capability. I called Hunter Alignment and as I remember, their newest machines had the capability. One shop that said they could align the rear, really could not, after a 2 hour drive and they fooled around for an hour trying, on my previous MCI.
I ended up setting up some lasers and aligning it myself.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
@Bryce: Thanks for the offer; I did get your note on the blog. I was guessing that you've not actually done a Neoplan, although I acknowledge that the Setra is similar. But see my note below. Anyway, we did not really want to divert that far north of our route plan -- we had enough cold in DC to last us the rest of the winter :)
@Ed: Trust me, it is the A-Frame that's bent:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fodyssey.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F461604422_VD4ys-M.jpg&hash=68122695d14dd07e1796c98f323b5c2166656ec3)
@All: Thanks for the suggestions; keep 'em coming. I don't expect most of the places I will call to be able to do it.
Again, there are no instructions, and it is tricky. As I understand it, the wrist pin needs to be put in dry ice, while the sleeve is heated up. Then the pin needs to be driven in to exactly the correct spot before the temperatures equalize and it can no longer be moved.
Also, I have some of the parts, but not all, and even knowing what parts to order is a challenge. No one at Neopart knows anything about the German coaches anymore, so it's up to the mechanic to know what's needed.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
After looking at the picture, is straightening it in place an option? --Only in the hands of an expert frame bodyman.
Have a classic car restoration shop take a look at it. One that rebuilds cars to original specs for show judging.
That frame looks similar in size to auto body frames in which their equipment would be strong enough and its in a good location for access.
I hope the shop that caused the damaged is paying for this repair! Who in their right mind would attempt to jack up a 30,000 pound bus on that arm?!? That mechanic doesn't deserve his pay, let along his job.
Mark
I have a letter from the shop saying they will pay for the repair. But that's two years old, so we shall see what lucj I have getting them to cough it up.
You're a little off on the weight, though -- Odyssey weighs 48,000 lbs. The tag supports about 11,000 of that.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
If they will pay the bill, I'd get it fixed right. Otherwise I would either heat it with a torch and straighten it or cut 3 inches out and insert it with some rectangular tubing until I got home.
Quote from: NJT 5573 on January 25, 2009, 05:46:57 PM
... Otherwise I would either heat it with a torch and straighten it
You're the second person to suggest this.
I'm guessing it took around 12,000 lbs of pressure to create that kink. I haven't a clue how I could provide that kind of pressure in the opposite direction without breaking something else above it. Heating it might reduce the pressure requirement somewhat (but not by, say, half), at the expense of compromising the strength of the metal. Without any clear evidence that it's even possible, or that we could straighten it enough to help, I'm reluctant to try, especially since I already have a replacement A-frame.
Quote
... or cut 3 inches out and insert it with some rectangular tubing ...
This is a huge hunk of metal. Hard to see in the photo, but I am guessing the dimension of that tube is perhaps 2" x 3", and the thickness of the steel is perhaps 1/4" or so. To even cut through it would require an oxy-acetylene torch and enough heat to melt the bushings and probably catch the grease on fire (not to mention, again, weakening the metal). Then, in order to provide the strength required here, we'd need to make a full-pen weld all the way around the tube -- not practical with the unit still on the bus. (Remember, this is the lower A-frame, so the load here is in tension, not compression. The axle is rated for 14,000 lbs, so the suspension geometry is collectively supporting 7,000 lbs on this one side, and that's static. Figure double that load or more when dynamic conditions are involved.) On top of which, I don't trust my own engineering skills to know how the force interactions will play out here (and I certainly don't have confidence that a bus shop could do that engineering either). Lastly, I consider welding of any kind on the bus to be a matter of last resort. There are some three dozen or so things that need to be disconnected before any welding can be done, and a good part of the bus would have to be emptied to do that. I would estimate four hours unloading, two hours to disconnect everything, two hours to reconnect everything, and another five hours to reload the bus. All assuming, of course, I have someplace to unload everything to in the first place...
Quote
.. until I got home.
OK, this part really got me. Because that begs the question: "And then what would you do?" The reason being that I
am home, of course, and so whatever
you would do when you got it home is what
I should do now. Right?
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Understand your reluctance to fix the existing. However, the right body man knows how to block the low points and use a ram to pull the high points with just the right amount of heat. Talk to a restorer. They can do it correctly. Just my 2 cents. ..
Hobie is giving you good advice Sean. If you are sure somebody else is going to pick up the entire tab then go for the replacement by all means. If you just want it fixed as good as new for the least money then find yourself a good frame shop or probably even just a good welding shop. As far as emptying the coach in order to weld on the frame goes surely you aren't serious. Get a good clean ground close to the weld point and get on with life.
Sean I second what Bob says and I repeat what I said earlier! The shop here in Lakeland (where it is now warm) can probably replace the arm but on the other hand, I have a close friend who is a certified welder and fabricator and I haven't seen anything yet that he wasn't able to make from scratch or fix. I'm talking intricate stuff that is used in the food industry and medical industry! All that stff has to be within certain tolerances and he's just plain good! He has all the machine shop equipment to fabricate anything in this world. You design it, he can build it!
I can show him the picture and see what he has to say about straightening it or ask the bus shop about replacing it!
As far as removing all your electronics? Not necessary as Bob again has stated! Depends on where you put the ground!
Ace
OK, Hobie and Bob, I'm willing to talk to someone about straightening it out. Do you have any recommendations? (My first choice is still to replace it, though.)
In regards to welding, yes, I am serious. Replacing a DDEC ECM, complete with programming, is north of $3K. I think the ATEC ECU is similar. Likewise I won't take chances with the LCD TV (~$800), the Silverleaf ($1,500), the file server (cheap, but the data isn't), the backup camera and monitor, etc. etc.. Even when the clamp is right next to the work, the sheer amount of current involved can send stray currents into all sorts of weird places, and there are myriad horror stories of expensive electronic controls being wiped out by welding that, by all rights, should not have done so. And, while almost every welder will tell you it's not a problem, no welding shop I've ever been in will reimburse you for connected electronics that get destroyed. So, no, I won't let anyone weld on the coach until I've disconnected everything first. YMMV, as they say.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
I'll go with Sean on this the Germans use a lot of Ductile iron in most of their casting and me I would worry about what type metal you are dealing with here before cutting and heating and trying to straighten
David
Several folks have mentioned the word casting. From Sean's photo, this is clearly a fabricated part and not a casting.
It also appears to be a fabricated from rectangular tubing. A good frame shop can straighten the part with no problem. They align "straight" axles of semis by bending the axle, no problem.
However, the tubing is deformed. There is no way to repair that deformation, short of some cutting and welding. The deformation does not seem to be a strength issue, as Sean has been traveling for two years with the bent arm. It is not obvious to me whether this part of the structure is in compression or tension when the tire encounters a bump (picture climbing a curb). If it sees mostly tension (leading arm of the A frame), I would go for the straightening process (will not require any welding), have the tag and front wheels aligned and call it good. That way you avoid a lot of parts chasing (sounds like a real issue with that bus) and replacement labor.
Any good large truck alignment shop should be able to do the work if they have a pit so that they can get under the part with their large port-a-power.
Not sure how many large truck shops can do a multi-axle alignment. A good shop with "experienced" (read old ;)) mechanic can do the tag axle alignment by setting up string lines along the bus side to get the toe-in correct and then put the gauges on to check the camber (since it does not turn, there is no way, or need, to check caster). That brings up a point. Sean, I hope you have the alignment specs for the bus. DO NOT let a shop apply some other vehicle specs to your bus!!! This is especially true on the front, where caster specs can vary depending on the design and can really make a HUGE difference in steering quality.
Jim
Quote from: rv_safetyman on January 26, 2009, 06:27:08 AM
... That brings up a point. Sean, I hope you have the alignment specs for the bus. DO NOT let a shop apply some other vehicle specs to your bus!!! This is especially true on the front, where caster specs can vary depending on the design and can really make a HUGE difference in steering quality.
Jim,
Actually, no, we don't have the specs. I've come up empty every time I've tried to get them.
The last time we had it aligned, right after the incident which bent the axle, the shop had the specs in the computer for a Neoplan three-axle Cityliner, and we used those, which ought to be close.
That said, I can't rule out that the tire wear problems we've had on the steer axle are due to improper alignment settings. I will say, though, that we have not had any handling problems -- the coach tracks and corners well at all speeds.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Man Sean, I hope that you get this figured out soon!!! I know that those tires are very expensive. We just put four Michelin XZA's on our drives, and that was pricey enough. Let alone going through them...
Well I don't have any suggestions for you...Sorry. I just wanted to let you know that you I can understand your pain.
God bless,
John
Jim I used the term "casting" because some of their tubing is a cast along with some plate steel that is cast and then rolled Ductile can formed one time by bending depending on the grade but most will not bend back to the original shape without breaking. Ductile can be fabricated just like any steel some can even be cut with a torch .So I would be very careful or he could be sitting in a shop for a long period of time somewhere he doesn't want to be. my 2 pennies worth
David
Of course new is best option.
Doubt the arm is cast as the photo shows a dent--hollow tubing. So it could be re-bent.
I would favor straighting over cutting and sectioning in a new piece. Most likley, the damage has pulled the other side of the A frame tweaking it a little so you would still need to check that alignment prior to final welding in a new section.
Straighting would be just the reverse action of what caused the damage. He will chain and block all ends of the arm and pull down using a ram at the high point. A torch would be used to gently heat the center while it is under pressure. The metal should only be heated to a very faint dull orange-- at most. Just a small localized area. Red hot is too much and will weaken the structure.
While this is taking place he will be checking frame alignment points and comparing it to the other side. This is what is used when factory specs aren't available. There are special gauges that are attached to the frame and simply put provide a reference point to measure and check for squareness and parallelogram in 3 dimensions.
I suggest asking custom body shops for a good frame guy. Best of success.
David, the word ductile is used to describe a cast iron material. This is clearly not a casting made of cast iron. Looking at the part that is attached to the tube, it sure looks like it is welded to the tube and I can't conceive that any factory would make a part from a casting that has parts welded to it. Castings are not normally used in suspension parts. They use forged parts, but not cast parts that I am aware of.
Sean, I too am concerned about the front tire cupping. The last time you had the bus aligned, I assume they checked for excessive wear on the suspension parts and that is not part of the problem. I would doubt that the tag alignment would cause any significant problems with front tire cupping.
On my Eagle, I had some pretty significant cupping on some new tires. I had set the wheel bearings on the max clearance side (probably a bit more, since I have a phobia about running tapered bearings with too little clearance). When I took the bus in for an alignment check, they commented that the wheel bearings were loose. I took the bus home and re-set the bearings to minimum clearance and the new tires have been wearing very well ever since.
Jim
Jim I know what the word ductile means we used over 300 tons last year in the manufacture of packaged sewerage treatment plants, tubing, sheets and pipe.This guy is dealing with a German product here not an American and FWIW the ZF suspensions have cast products in the suspension.It is his bus and I am sure he will do what he thinks is best so I won't make any more comments about the matter
David
Sean,
Hobie and the guys are right. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner other than the fact that I knew you had a replacement A frame and that you preferred to go that route!
Now if your willing to detour as far as Ft. Smith, AR there is a Frame & Spring shop there that does awesome work! I had a brand new '99 Freightliner back in '98-99 that kept wearing the steer tires, and always pulled to the left. I had it "aligned 12 times in 5 different dealers and they always said it "was right on specs". Well someone recommended the Ft. Smith shop and I took it to them. They had it in the shop less than 30 mins before they told me that the axle it self was out of "spec". Well they explained that it was with in Freightliners spec, but not the axle manufacturer's specs. An hour later I was on the road with the axle bent to spec and it drove better than ever before (quit eating tires too!)! FWIW HTH ;D BK ;D
Sean the # for the shop in the Midland area is 432-337-7315 and they have a frame shop but I doubt if they will try to straighten a A frame but you never know
David
www.josamusa.com
You are 100% right Sean - its your coach and your money so you do what you think is best. And I wouldn't presume to argue electric theory with you because I am sure you have forgotten more than I will ever understand. However, for anyone else who is reading this thread I will say this from a simple farm boy's perspective:
Electricity needs two things - a place to be from and a place to go to. It will take the easiest path between those two places every time. Now if we were talking about 1000s of volts and 1000s of amps (think lightning) then all bets are off because the pathway may not be big enough between the two places. But we aren't talking about that. We're talking about 20-30 volts and at the upper end 200 amps. At that range a clean ground and clean welds is absolutely all that is required. The more anal among you might want to throw the main disconnects or even the main breakers in the panels but nothing more is required.
Quote from: Hobie on January 26, 2009, 06:57:09 AM
Of course new is best option.
Doubt the arm is cast as the photo shows a dent--hollow tubing. So it could be re-bent.
I would favor straighting over cutting and sectioning in a new piece. Most likley, the damage has pulled the other side of the A frame tweaking it a little so you would still need to check that alignment prior to final welding in a new section.
Straighting would be just the reverse action of what caused the damage. He will chain and block all ends of the arm and pull down using a ram at the high point. A torch would be used to gently heat the center while it is under pressure. The metal should only be heated to a very faint dull orange-- at most. Just a small localized area. Red hot is too much and will weaken the structure.
While this is taking place he will be checking frame alignment points and comparing it to the other side. This is what is used when factory specs aren't available. There are special gauges that are attached to the frame and simply put provide a reference point to measure and check for squareness and parallelogram in 3 dimensions.
I suggest asking custom body shops for a good frame guy. Best of success.
If I may add to the above post. Remove the tire/rim. The compound/concave section is to be cut out so it can be straighten much easier and weld 1 ½ inch wide flat mild steel stock to both side and about 3" beyond the cutout and flat stock bottom of both side of new metal. Thickness should be same as the cutout piece. Otherwise, if you re-straighten without remove the damage section...it can change to dimension of the location between the pivot points.
A good heavy truck frame shop can do all the above work and the alignment job.
This is a minor work for them to handle. No need to go the long route to replace for new one unless it broken into two or ends are worn out. And hopeful if you have it R&R "A" frame that they have no problem getting the pin in without binding.
The bottom-line is to have all the welded portion anneals by torch heat until it reach to dull red and cool slowly. That to relieve all stresses points.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
As usual Gerald has nailed the simple cost effective solution. The only thing I would add to his instructions - and its something that a good weld shop should know anyway - is to NOT weld at right angles to the box section frame member. IOW, the ends of the fillet plates that Gerald referred to should be pointed with stitch welds to hold them to the surface of the frame but under no circumstances should they be cut off square and welded across the frame member. You can weld lengthwise on that frame to your heart's content but don't weld across it unless you want it to crack.
What ever you choose to do be sure that the shop that does the repair can also do the alignment. If the attachments are tweaked you may not have adjustment to get proper alignment. I made that mistake once. Frame repair looked great, body panels fit right, couldn't get proper alignment. >:(
Hard to tell with just one pix, but I would lean toward straightening the existing A-frame. A good frame man can make it look like new, avoiding the potential problems of not having all the necessary parts. Which ever way you go, the shop needs to be capable of either repair. If you choose to replace the A-frame the attachment points may need some work to get them aligned for the one shot you have at installing the pins by the book.
So let's see, all you need is a good frame shop, one that can do the alignment, a good man to do the repair, a shop with a pit that can accommodate Odyssey, and a bar nearby to calm your nerves. :)
Good luck
Don 4107
Quote from: Don4107 on January 26, 2009, 02:37:28 PM
So let's see, all you need is a good frame shop, one that can do the alignment, a good man to do the repair, a shop with a pit that can accommodate Odyssey, and a bar nearby to calm your nerves. :)
And you've already got about 100 internet experts to give you free advice. Lucky you!! BTDT. Good luck. :)
Quote from: bobofthenorth on January 26, 2009, 10:13:04 AM
Electricity ... will take the easiest path between ... two places every time.
Actually, Bob, technically, the electricity will take
all the paths between them, not just the "easiest." This is simple to prove -- run, say, a 2" long piece of 0000 and a 1,000' long piece of #14 between the same two points. Apply a voltage, and measure the current. While the current in the #14 will be very small, it will not be zero.
So the same is true for welding. If you had a ring of metal, like a hula hoop, and put your ground clamp on it, then welded something an inch or two away from that ground clamp, you will still see quite a measurable current at the spot on the hula hoop diametrically opposed to the weld. In a very large mass of metal, like a bus, the current will go everywhere, and it will certainly be infinitesimal in most places. But it will not be zero anyplace.
Whether that current will be enough to harm any given piece of electronics is debatable. Many items can not tolerate any reverse bias whatsoever (where the ground becomes positive with respect to the supply). I can tell you, though, that ECMs have, indeed, been fried by welding that was nowhere near them. You could argue that the welder was sloppy when attaching his clamp, perhaps. But, again, I won't take the chance, and I would not advise anyone else here to do so either.
JMO, and FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
OK, so I have another question for the torch/cut/weld proponents:
I'm trying to imagine what all this heat will do to the pivot bushings. I believe these are permanently greased items with some kind of polymer layer between the inner and outer components.
Does anyone know for certain if the heat of cutting and welding, or the heat required for straightening, or the heat required for the annealing recommended by Gerald, will damage the bushings? Or is the recommendation to remove the bushings first, and do all this work with that end of the A-frame loose?
Lastly, I still need recommendations for shops to actually do this. Otherwise it is all quite theoretical :)
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sean,
The difference between home and on the road to me is I own a staffed private Truck Repair Shop that supports my Trucking Business and various mechanical hobbies. I am also a fair mechanic, both auto, from Nascar experience, (Fabrication etc). and commercial from owning and repairing as well as building/rebuilding Trucks and repairing buses for about 40 years.
Perhaps sometimes I forget that not everyone has a Jack, Portapower, Torch, Welder, Steel and wood blocks and the knowledge to use them in their cargo bay or available at the closest rental shop.
To you I can see it looks like a monumental problem, to me it just looks like a bent piece of mild steel! I really would have no problem measuring the "replacement" A frame length, cutting out the 6 inch section that is bent, pulling or pushing the length right and welding in a insert on the road to get me home. I would use string and a tape measure, much like we do after an accident at the race track to get the alignment close enough to not have a tire wear issue. If I were to straighten it, I would fab a 3 sided shoe to fit over the bend, heat it, lay the shoe over it and push or pull it straight. I could probably do either, including jacking my bus up in no more than an hour and a half. I would likely still replace the A frame in my shop though at my convience.
I have DDEC 2 and ATEC. When my windows were skinned all we did was throw the master switch off and weld in the cross bars. Nothing burned up but I respect your concern.
Most tire wear problems are related to toe in that usually is easily adjusted, and cheap tires or a combination of both, once a radial tire sets a wear pattern it will continue that pattern until its used up regardless if you make alignment adjustments.
If you have a wrist pin, (piston), type fit to deal with, a freezer for the pin and a torch for the housing are normally what it takes to get the two togather.(Its going to be heated anyway). Probably no exotic materials involved, just common sense and intermediate mechanical skills. Hopefully the hole in your replacement A frame is good.
All good advise guys.
I wouldn't be concerned if the shop welds a small tab directly on the dent area to attach a pull point. Then cuts it off later and may fab an overlay as has been suggested.
Regarding the heat and rubber. The heat will be quite localized and should not be a problem. They will probably wrap the rubber with wet rags or if it is closer, a bag of ice.
Sean,
I am with you on disconnecting you computers, and ECM. Those are very expensive pieces of equipment. It would take a lot of hassle for me not to disconnect them. I would sure hate to lose one of them to not disconnecting them. Not to mention disconnection the batteries and the equalizer.
God bless,
John
Quote from: bobofthenorth on January 26, 2009, 01:37:26 PM
As usual Gerald has nailed the simple cost effective solution. The only thing I would add to his instructions - and its something that a good weld shop should know anyway - is to NOT weld at right angles to the box section frame member. IOW, the ends of the fillet plates that Gerald referred to should be pointed with stitch welds to hold them to the surface of the frame but under no circumstances should they be cut off square and welded across the frame member. You can weld lengthwise on that frame to your heart's content but don't weld across it unless you want it to crack.
Amen.
Stitch weld is better yet if you don't want to anneal it. As per Bob said any good welder will tack it in place and several place around to maintain it alignment before stitch welds.
About heating with rubber bushing on ends...no need to be concern if welder wrap a water soak rag around the "A" frame ends. And no need to anneal it if you have it stitch weld.
When you talk to any welder, always ask him how he going to about it and tell him all the concern question BEFORE you decide who.
Cautions...do not weld on any metal at the bottom of concave area for pulling or you will have big problem due the interfering of the outward or expanding movement. Pull or push at the top of the bend. I suggest pull using beam (frame and alignment shop have them on hand) and port-a-power (hydraulic).
About ECM equips bus...all of what Sean said it well (as always) for current feed is one thing of the two. The other thing is EMF Electromagnetic field...when welding near ECM's cable or harness which are unshielded from the factory unless it change now. Any magnetic field from the arcing will cause the ECM's program into crash format unless that nearby cable is disconnecting from ECM unit. In this case it too far from the ECM harness.
Where I retired from GM Tech, they have special Electromagnetic compatibility lab room with double steel jack and special copper loom seal around huge door to seal.
We can kill any ECM car inside the room. In other words, our enemy can shut down our transportation system via a push button. Yes it very serous indeed. This been build and working since 1978.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
BTW...remember Cody's wife in prayer
It's pretty simple to me-Sean has a take off replacement A-arm. Replace the arm and be done with it- no welding, no bending, no risking fire, no risking burning up the bushings, no risk of electrical damage, no risk at wondering what and where the old arm needs to be reinforced- need I say more? Good Luck, TomC
OK, here's the update.
Between this board and the other one, I received only six specific recommendations for shops. Three of those were off our route far enough that I did not call them (Orlando, Atlanta which we had already left behind, and Birmingham which we bypassed to be in Montgomery).
I got two different recommendations for Odessa Spring, Brake, and Axle, although both of them provided, apparently, the fax number. The phone turns out to be 432-337-7301. I spoke with JC there, and, after describing the problem, he thought he could not bend it, it would have to be replaced. However, when I described the procedure involved in removing and replacing the wrist pin, he said he was not familiar with it and they had never done one.
Someone recommended Tejas Coach, but I can't reach them on the provided number, which is also what is posted on their web site. It always comes back busy.
I also received a recommendation for E&C Spring, near San Diego. He was familiar with the procedure, says he's done many similar installations, and generally sounded very knowledgeable. So my final option is to go there. However, I'm a good 2,000 miles from San Diego, and my first opportunity to get it to him will be the first week in March. I was hoping to get this taken care of sooner and closer, such as in the next week between here (Demopolis, Alabama) and Arizona.
So I still welcome specific shop recommendations between here and there.
Thanks, everyone.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
You might give a call to
Custom Coach Conversions USA Inc
(601) 502-0656
Jackson Miss. on interstate 20
See if they know of someone who can do a good job
Just a thought
Skip
Sean,
This is not on your topic. We live in Abilene TX. on I-20. If you have a chance to stop by give a holler. I don't know where you are right now, would be great to meet you.
My phone is three two five 660 4635.
Hope you are able to find a place to do the work right!
Paul
Like Paul, I can't give you any help with a shop. I'm 5 miles off I20, between Tyler and Longview texas. Stop by or call If i can help. (Or just layover). nine o three,530 fortyfour,ninety seven.
Big John and Blu
Sean,
A good alignment shop should be able to align that side so it doesn't wear the tire. Make sure the shop knows that you have a double a-arm suspension system with four adjusting points. The bend in the lower a-arm will require that the rear lower be adjusted out to correct the camber. This will increase the castor setting which can be corrected by adjusting the front of the upper a-arm in and the rear of the upper a-arm out. Now adjust the toe-in. Insure that the bus is at normal ride height when checking the readings. The bent a-arm will cause the alignment to change more than it did throughout up and down movement but this should not be a problem as you have a fixed ride height.
The new Neoplans still use the same suspension but instead of having the tie rods connected to a fixed point they are connected to a computer controlled hydraulic cylinder to provide active tag axle steering.
http://www.jeansbussvc.com/Contact%20Information.htm (http://www.jeansbussvc.com/Contact%20Information.htm)
Sean,
Try Jeans and ask for Johnny, tell him wassup, If they can't do it, they can tell where to get it changed out. They run Setra's and Vanhools and work an bout anything. Only a couple hours from atlanta, you may have to visit some busnuts though :)
Sean...whenever your in a large city that have heavy duty truck dealer is bound to a heavy duty frame & alignment stop to handle your problem. Always ask truck dealer their opinion of their nearby frame & alignment shop to satisfied you.
A popular choice or high rated frame & alignment shop will or can repair without R&R "A" frame with alignment to be back on to your journey to wherever.
Hope everthing goes well for you.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
BTW..I would ask that the alignment is guaranitee to be in spec if had it recheck there.
We finally are rid of our bad A-Frame. Many thanks to everyone who posted suggestions here.
On recommendation of Roger Baughman here on the boards, we went to E & C Spring Inc. at 518 Venture Street in Escondido CA 92029 (760-747-5050 or 760-747-1961). Owner Ben Elkins was extremely knowledgeable, helpful, and professional.
For the record, we asked about straightening the piece, and his opinion was that it should come out to be straightened anyway. And his further opinion was that the tube was badly enough damaged that he would actually cut that section out and replace it. Since we had a good take-out, all that was moot.
The infamous hinge pin that is reputed to be the source of all trouble with this job turned out to be no problem. The pin came out with a combination of an air chisel (with a flat drift head on it) on one side, then a short section of pipe and the original nut as an extractor from the other. And the pin went back in with some coaxing from the same air chisel -- no need for the dry ice routine.
It turned out the thorniest problem was removing the bolts holding the other end of the arm to the frame. At least one nut was frozen on, and the A-frames on both sides are through-bolted, so bolts needed to be moved around to keep the other side in place during the procedure.
My bill was for eight hours of labor (split between two men), as I had supplied all the parts. In addition to the take-out A-frame, fellow BBS member Russ Barnes had also furnished me with four new bushings and pinch bolts.
Now that the A-frame is done, we are on our way to L.A. Freightliner to have the bearings looked at and the alignment done. We normally stay out of these sorts of major shop operations, preferring smaller shops where the service is somewhat more personal. But getting parts or even drawings and service instructions for our weird Mercedes axles is something of a challenge, and Freightliner is Mercedes' official US service channel. We chose the Los Angeles location because BBS member Tom Christman happens to work there.
Once the bearings and alignment are taken care of, we'll proceed directly to a tire dealer for six new tires, as we're now well below legal tread on all four drivers, and the steers are so lumpy they are rattling our teeth out.
I'll be writing this up on the blog shortly, and we've got loads of photos of the process, so we'll pick a few to post there as well.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Thank you for your update. It nice to know how it went.
Labor wise...it can be about the same or less than weld repair due to the time to R&R.
Hope everything goes well to getting it aligned properly.
Thank you for sharing it.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald