Hello all. I am new to the board and wanted to say hi. I am very excited to be starting the search for my first coach conversion. I have spent countless hours already reading and studying the posts and wealth of information available here. There are so many choices out there but I have narrowed it down to either an MCI or Prevost. The coach will be used for personal travel as well as for traveling to various promotional and company related events. I own a marketing and printing company here in Portland and a coach with a full vinyl vehicle wrap rolling down the road and parked at events could prove to be an amazing marketing tool.
I am going to have a veggie oil system installed on the coach with the ability to collect, filter and dewater veg while on the road. I have several other diesel powered vehicles I have run on WVO for some time now with great results.
As far as my choice between coaches go it seems that the MCI is a great product for a number of reasons. First and foremost they are still in business and parts are readily available. One question I have is how essential it is to do a roof raise for optimum usability? I am 5'10 and don't anticipate having a bunch of tall people on board but am curious if it is a good choice to do the raise from the standpoint of overall resale and just general usability? My other question is layout. Has anyone found a particular CAD style program that they have used to work with layouts to find the best one for them? I am like most in that I would like to find as new a coach as I can for the money. Ideally I would like to find a coach that already has the roof raise done as well as has already been converted as it is my understanding that it's much easier to modify a coach that is already converted as opposed to starting from scratch. If anyone has links or information on anything for sale that they would not mind posting I would really appreciate it. I am glad to be here and can't wait to move forward with the project.
Hi PDXGREENBUS,
WELCOME!
It sounds like you pretty much know what you want. That's a great start.
Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. Our members are always willing to help another Bus Nut on board.
Good Luck with your purchace.
Nick-
I may be mistaken, but making your bus a marketing tool will remove the rv status. it now becomes a commercial vehicle. opens up a whole new can of worms.
The only real use for the company would be having my company graphics on it. I am not sure what that would do to the RV status vs bus status. My grandparents Prevost has a wrap on it with the company graphics and their insurance agent has no problems with it what so ever.
I think what 4905 doc is talking about is: You now have a commercial vehicle and the driver's licensing requirements, vehicle inspections and log book to go with it.
Just my 2 centavos.
Hey Portland, Glad to have you here! ;D I've said it before and I'll say it again-this is a collection of the finest, most helpful bunch of nuts (sometimes too honest LOL) anywhere. Ask lots of questions and when you get your bus, post pictures (a few here have a hard time with the printed word :o ;D) Goodluck, Will & Wife
PS-spent more than 20 years earning a living in PDX-love that overgrown hicktown!
Welcome to the board ;D As it's been said, the amount of help here on the board is beyond compare.
What kind of money are you looking to spend on your project?
Bill
Some of MY thoughts & opinions :
Don't get in a rush to buy one, it's a buyers market now.
Build it to suit YOUR needs.
Don't worry about what the next owner will think about what you did.
Age isn't as important as condition or the area it was operated in.
Re-powering is expensive, so it's usually worth the extra $$$ to get a good one.
They ALWAYS cost more than you planned! :o :(
PS, learning cad can be a challenge in itself. The grid paper with the little squares can be of great benefit, you just have to keep up with the numbers the old fashioned way. ;)
My buddy in Vancouver WA just bought an MCI 102A3 and loves it! Now all he has to do is convert it! ;D He and his wife are having a ball and take it out every weekend to get used to it. They will have fun making it their coach.
Hope you can have the same luck in finding yours.
Happy Trails,
Paul
PDX,
Welcome!!! We are glad to have you aboard. I will give you my thoughts on which bus to buy, since you have narrowed it down to a MCI or Prevost. First off, you don't just drive a bus, you experience a bus (can I hear some Amen's please ;D :D ;D). What do I mean by that? Well a bus is a lot like an airplane. It has complex systems, on it, namely the electrical, and air (of course there is the power train and things like that). If it is a bus, it will fail...on rare occasions ;D. With that said, you want a bus, that can be diagnosed, and fixed, in the shortest amount of time. My recommendation would be a MCI DL3. I say that because, that is the first model, that was a forty-five footer, which means more room, less maneuverability, etc. Second, it isn't as computerized as a E model or later. I have heard that with an E, if something goes wrong, then you replace a three hundred dollar part, then a seven hundred dollar part, and then, when all else fails, you replace a two thousand dollar computer. With a DL3, if something goes wrong, you troubleshoot the failure and fix it. Also the parts are fairly readily available from MCI.
If you are concerned about the looks of a DL3, which doesn't look as pretty as a E or later model, there are cosmetic things that you can do. An R&M upgrade kit for the front, which is a huge challenge to install, looks great when done. You can also raise the roof, making it look more imposing (of course you would raise it for the extra room right? ;D :D. The paint job is also critical to making it look fancy (if that is what you are going for). If you want the new MCI look, it is fairly simple to paint around the windows black, and swoop it down to the drivers window. The bottom line is, I would consider a DL3, if you need the forty-five footer. MCI also has some other great buses, but they don't have the extra five feet. One other thing that I have loved, about ours, is the Detroit Diesel, Series 60 engine, that we have. That engine, coupled with an Allison B500 tranny, is a great powertrain setup.
If you have any more questions about a DL3, let me know since we have one, and I love it.
Remember, all of this was if you were going to get a forty-five foot MCI. If you are going with a Prevost, or another MCI, I really don't have much insight on those. I do know that some of the other guys here have excellent advice on them, so keep your ears open. Like others have said, your bus will end up costing you far more than you planned...but then again isn't that the goal??!! ;D ;D ;D
My post is not to scare you off, just to let you know about somethings . You will love your bus...except for rare occasions...and this board is a great place to learn.
Enough for now.
God bless,
John
Quote from: Kwajdiver on November 24, 2008, 04:48:43 PM
Welcome to the board ;D As it's been said, the amount of help here on the board is beyond compare.
What kind of money are you looking to spend on your project?
Bill
I am looking to stay around 60-70K if possible. I dont mind spending the money but I have a tendency to go a bi overboard with projects so I need to set a budget and from my research it seems that this might be a realistic scenerio. What do you guys think. I have come to the conclusion that I want an MCI with a 6V92TA DDEC motor. Here is a thread about I have going over on Frybrid. If it's unacceptable to link to other forums I apologize in advance. http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12807
MCI and Prevos are great buses but don't rule out eagles entirely, the torslastic suspension is well worth taking a look at, we've had ours for 6 years now and the bus has performed flawlessly with the minor exceptin of a gasket that was a whopping 10 bucks to buy.
60 to 70 Gs! Buy one already done and make some of us really jealous! ;D
I know of several high quality conversions that are selling for that kind of money. Why wait several months or years >:( >:( in order to enjoy the benefits of a converted bus unless you really have no social life and your "non-nutty" friends have all abandon you!
60 to 70 grand, can I be your new friend?
Welcome
Grant
Quote from: grantgoold on November 25, 2008, 07:56:36 AM
60 to 70 Gs! Buy one already done and make some of us really jealous! ;D
I know of several high quality conversions that are selling for that kind of money. Why wait several months or years >:( >:( in order to enjoy the benefits of a converted bus unless you really have no social life and your "non-nutty" friends have all abandon you!
60 to 70 grand, can I be your new friend?
Welcome
Grant
lol, thanks for the welcome. I would love it if you have time to post a few links to some of the things that you have seen for sale. I have been all over the web looking and have yet to find what I would consider a really strong deal. It would be great to go ahead and get my bus so that I can get the veggie conversion done and hit the road.
QuoteThe only real use for the company would be having my company graphics on it. I am not sure what that would do to the RV status vs bus status.
What matters is what Officer Friendly thinks, standing beside the bus, ticket book in hand. If what you think and what he thinks does not coincide, he will cite you and let you, the judge and a lawyer work it out.
My advice: Put the graphics on the bus, but not advertising graphics. Put "Graphics by _____" with no indication that you are _____
I wouldn't sell Tupperware out of an RV for just this reason. ( I wouldn't sell Tupperware anywhere else either, but I had to make my point )
QuoteI would love it if you have time to post a few links to some of the things that you have seen for sale. I have been all over the web looking and have yet to find what I would consider a really strong deal.
Use my Backflip:
http://www.backflip.com/members/kd5kfl/10959942/sort=0/
Quote from: cody on November 25, 2008, 06:51:23 AM
MCI and Prevos are great buses but don't rule out eagles entirely, the torslastic suspension is well worth taking a look at, we've had ours for 6 years now and the bus has performed flawlessly with the minor exceptin of a gasket that was a whopping 10 bucks to buy.
Tell me more about eagles! I love them. They have a classic sexy rock star look to them. I have read the stories about rust and tough parts availability. If I found a coach that hid little or no rust and had no been operated much in salty conditions would I be fine seeing as I live in oregon where salt is not used on the roads? I will not be driving my coach in salty conditions either. Parts? What are the specific ones that can prove to be a problem. I want reliability and in the event it does have a breakdown want to be able to find a mechanic easily.
What little I know about eagles is just from my own, as far as parts availability, a detroit diesel is still a detroit diesel, whether it's in an eagle or an mci, same with an allison, the main thing about eagles is that you do have to watch for a good one with little or no rust, I was very fortunate in finding one wth minimal rust, some arn't so lucky but I have seen a lot of MCI's with far more rust than mine had. Another thing to check is the adjustment left on the torslastic suspension, make sure that their is enough left, the torsion bars are expensive to replace if all the adjustment threads are used. One thing you'll never have to worry about that is a concern with MCI is the air bags or air beam leaking, doesn't have them. Eagles also have taller bays than both the MCI and Prevo, mine are 36 inches tall and 5ft wide by the entire width of the bus, lots of storage. I haven't had to replace any parts yet that I couldn't find at NAPA or the other parts stores, any parts supplier for heavy trucks can normally get what you may need, if not a quick post here will usually locate what you need. One of the biggest things I find important is the strength of the eagle body, it is built like a truss, you can actually drive down the road with no skin on it, with MCI the skin is an important part of the structural strength, I have heard of people buying eagles and driving them home without a skin, the thigns are built like a tank. With eagles, it seems that you either love them or you hate them, but like anything else, it's good to do the research and then have a qualified mechanic check it over, even if your a good mechanic an unbiased opinion really helps, when I checked over mine I brought with me a mechanic from a charter company, he knew what to look for and had a good idea what would be fatal or not and when he gave me the thumbs up on my bus after crawling around under and thru it for what seemed like an eternity I knew I had found the one I wanted. All buses have their good points and bad points, the biggest thing is that any bus on it's worse day is far better than a S&S on it's best day, doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Prevo, MCI, GM or any other one, the main thing is that it is what you want, and suits your lifestyle, there is plenty of help and suggestions here on the board to iron out any problem areas, just ask and somebody will help, lots of very knowledgeable people here, also lots of opinions, but all good people.
Quote from: cody on November 25, 2008, 09:08:41 AM
What little I know about eagles is just from my own, as far as parts availability, a detroit diesel is still a detroit diesel, whether it's in an eagle or an mci, same with an allison, the main thing about eagles is that you do have to watch for a good one with little or no rust, I was very fortunate in finding one wth minimal rust, some arn't so lucky but I have seen a lot of MCI's with far more rust than mine had. Another thing to check is the adjustment left on the torslastic suspension, make sure that their is enough left, the torsion bars are expensive to replace if all the adjustment threads are used. One thing you'll never have to worry about that is a concern with MCI is the air bags or air beam leaking, doesn't have them. Eagles also have taller bays than both the MCI and Prevo, mine are 36 inches tall and 5ft wide by the entire width of the bus, lots of storage. I haven't had to replace any parts yet that I couldn't find at NAPA or the other parts stores, any parts supplier for heavy trucks can normally get what you may need, if not a quick post here will usually locate what you need. One of the biggest things I find important is the strength of the eagle body, it is built like a truss, you can actually drive down the road with no skin on it, with MCI the skin is an important part of the structural strength, I have heard of people buying eagles and driving them home without a skin, the thigns are built like a tank. With eagles, it seems that you either love them or you hate them, but like anything else, it's good to do the research and then have a qualified mechanic check it over, even if your a good mechanic an unbiased opinion really helps, when I checked over mine I brought with me a mechanic from a charter company, he knew what to look for and had a good idea what would be fatal or not and when he gave me the thumbs up on my bus after crawling around under and thru it for what seemed like an eternity I knew I had found the one I wanted. All buses have their good points and bad points, the biggest thing is that any bus on it's worse day is far better than a S&S on it's best day, doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Prevo, MCI, GM or any other one, the main thing is that it is what you want, and suits your lifestyle, there is plenty of help and suggestions here on the board to iron out any problem areas, just ask and somebody will help, lots of very knowledgeable people here, also lots of opinions, but all good people.
Are there any years of the eagle to stay away from? I am one as previously mentioned that loves the look. Is it necesssary to raise the roof as with the MCI? Do eagles have the sloping floor like the mci does? I do like the idea of not having air bags to worry about. the less things that can fail the better. i know what you mean about the rust and that is one of the main things people like to say when the topic of an eagle is brought up but I have looked at several MCi and prevost that as you mentioned have the same amount of rust or more. It's all about where they have been operated and how they have been cared for I suppose.
Mine is a 1981 model 10, I looked at a model 15 but didn't care for the taller windshield, seemed to me to be a major source of heat gain in the summer, on mine the floor is flat and my ceiling height is 75 inches, it's more than enought for me, I'm 5ft11in. The model 10 seems to be the more abundant eagle, not sure if it's the most popular but it's the one I see the most of. Another thing I liked about eagle was the 12 volt power system, in this area finding the 24 volt items that MCI requires can be hard to do and I didn't want to go to the trouble of putting in a duel power system that would be 24 for the bus and 12 volt for what I wanted, so it made sence to me to start with a bus that was already 12 volt. I'm putting a pic of mine here, same as my avatar pic but biggered up a little.
This gives you a little idea of the ceiling height, just another pic from the mess.
Quote from: cody on November 25, 2008, 09:54:41 AM
Mine is a 1981 model 10, I looked at a model 15 but didn't care for the taller windshield, seemed to me to be a major source of heat gain in the summer, on mine the floor is flat and my ceiling height is 75 inches, it's more than enought for me, I'm 5ft11in. The model 10 seems to be the more abundant eagle, not sure if it's the most popular but it's the one I see the most of. Another thing I liked about eagle was the 12 volt power system, in this area finding the 24 volt items that MCI requires can be hard to do and I didn't want to go to the trouble of putting in a duel power system that would be 24 for the bus and 12 volt for what I wanted, so it made sence to me to start with a bus that was already 12 volt. I'm putting a pic of mine here, same as my avatar pic but biggered up a little.
wow that is one gorgeous machine to say the least. I am a huge fan of the color white and that is pretty much exactly what I want. One question i was going to ask was about flexsteel furniture. is that pretty top notch stuff?
Flexsteel has been an industry standard for a long time, it's good stuff, there are many good brands of furniture for a bus, flexsteel being one of the top choices tho. Some of the conciderations being if you can get it into the bus lol, a good friend of mine bought a really nice couch and it wouldn't go thru the door, so he tryed a window, nope, lol, rather than feed it in thru a removed windshield he took it back, this time with measurements lol. For the most part our decor is described as Early Goodwill, or American Yard Sale lol.
Newbie question here but are these built like a bus or are they considered S&S?
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/rvs/927875713.html
Quote from: PDXGREENBUS on November 25, 2008, 08:12:27 AM
I want reliability and in the event it does have a breakdown want to be able to find a mechanic easily.
PDX -Consider this: MCI dominates the charter and tour bus industry. Nearly every charter outfit in the country has shop technicians familiar with them. Whether or not they take in "outside work" is another issue, but in this slack economy, income from an outside repair is better than no income from the fleet sitting in the yard. Which leads to:
You (and every other busnut on this bbs, too, for that matter) need to get a copy of "The Bus Garage Index", published annually by Bus Ride magazine, one of the industry's trade journals. Lists every bus company in the country, with contact info. Well worth the $40 or so you'll spend for a copy, especially at Oh Dark Thirty. Available directly from the publisher @ www.busride.com. (I have no connection with them, other than knowledge of it based on my years of working in the industry, and my copy in the bookcase.)
Prevost is the leader in terms of conversion coach shells from the factory, but they also are pretty common in the tour bus industry, followed by Van Hools. VH's aren't used much for conversions, MCI & Prevost now dominate the market, but some charter outfits like them. Since they're imported from Europe, some parts may be an issue, just like BK's Setras or Brian's Dina.
Eagles dominated the entertainer coach industry for years, due to their torsilastic suspension. They tend to gently porpoise front to rear while running down the highway, as opposed to the side-to-side movement of an air suspended coach. Supposedly much more comfortable to sleep in while traveling at 70+ mph on the interstate between gigs - something most RV folk don't do, unless Mama wants to take a nap. (Of course it's different sleeping in a bunk along a wall as opposed to a big queen in the center of the back.) One caveat about the Eagle suspension, however: They are very sensitive to shock absorber condition. That gentle porpoising I mentioned earlier can literally buck the driver out of his seat if the highway undulations are severe and the shocks are bad - BTDT.
Prevost is now the coach of choice for most entertainer cars. For years, Prevost has mounted their air bellows for the suspension outboard, just inside the exterior skin, as opposed to inboard of the tires, like GM & MCI. Because of this, their vehicles tend to sway less than the others, especially MCI 8's & 9's. (The running joke in the industry when 8s & 9s were prevalent was that MCI's cornered on the rub rails. . .) GMCs, starting with the 4106, have hefty sway bars underneath to control the sway, and they work well. The point here is that the entertainer cars have switched to Prevost due to their ride at speed, but again, it's sort of a moot point for RV use.
Corrosion is an issue with all buses, not just Eagles, and it doesn't have to be from salt, either. Water in any form is a great solvent. . . even if it's just off the bus wash rack in Phoenix. Obviously, certain areas of the country are more prone than others, but you get my point.
Quick note: Starting with the 102C3 models, MCI raised the roof 3+ inches over previous models. So if headroom is an issue, a "C" or later doesn't require a roof raise. OTOH, if you're under six feet tall, a roof raise may be an unnecessary expense. The sloping floor of an MCI, btw, is really a non-issue, it's really not even noticeable, except for the short ramp in front. Most converters remove the ramp, a minor project. Another consideration - MCI drivers sit up almost at the same level as the passengers - a slight safety margin.
35-foot coaches can be driven almost anywhere, like a giant mini-van. 40-footers are also pretty maneuverable (and the most popular), but sometimes you cannot get into the older state parks and recreation areas. 45-footers, like John316 has, can be a challenge in campgrounds. Here in CA, they are even restricted from certain highways, and you have to get a special license to drive them if you live here. Something else to take into consideration.
Buy a coach already equipped with an automatic transmission. You and the family will be much happier in the long run.
Budget for 6 mpg, and you're actual will be pretty darned close to your budget, regardless of powertrain combo. (Obviously, if you want to make your coach exhaust smell like french fries from a veggie-oil fuel system, you'll need to make sure you've got a baggage bay available for processing.)
Speaking of powertrains:
The venerable 71-series may have the least power, but they're also virtually unbreakable, and far more forgiving than the 92-series. (At the transit agency I worked at for awhile, the 8V71's would go approximately 30% longer before overhaul compared to the 6V92TAs - and you cannot get a harsher environment for an engine than transit service.) The S-60's are the modern-day 6-71s - they'll literally run forever with decent care & feeding - better fuel mileage, too. The older MUI engines (Mechanical Unit Injector) will often get you home if there's a problem, whereas a DDEC parks you till it's fixed. However, like today's automobiles, the electronics on the diesels are far more reliable than they used to be.
Right down I-5 from you in Coburg, OR, is the home of Marathon Coach - the epitome of ostentatious rolling brothel interiors. Take a drive down and have a look around, there's always a few used units on their lot. Since Marathon specializes in snooty snobbery, their prices reflect that attitude. Look for the oldest coach on the lot, if it's not trashed and has a floorplan you can live with, offer them 1/3 of what they're asking for it and see what happens. . . it's a buyer's market right now, and you may be surprised. (But don't offer any more than half - that's too much for their "blue sky".)
I'm aware of a fellow who recently picked up an '89 Prevost XL with a Liberty Coach conversion that had been on the market for over a year at $150K. This fellow picked it up for $75K - half of what it was listed at - and it is gorgeous, inside and out. Point here is that this soft market means deals can be had, and don't be afraid to look at units in the $150 - $175K range.
The website leads kd5kfl gave you thru his Backflip link should provide hours of entertainment searching for a rig. . .
I've prattled on enough for now. If I can be of any further help, feel free to send me a pm, either here or to my private email, which is in my profile. I spent 25+ years in the industry, primarily in Operations Management and Training, so my perspective is slightly different than many busnuts on this and other forums. Whether or not you'd find that helpful is up to you.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
PS: The craigslist RV is a fiberglass & twigs S&S. Here are the most common "real bus chassis" manufacturers for conversions of
highway coaches: GMC, MCI, Prevost, Eagle, Flxible, Setra, & Van Hool. Similar names for transit manufacturers, but most folk agree that transits aren't normally the best choice for RV conversions. Main exception being the GMC/TMC RTS. Most anything else claiming to be "bus-like" is a twig rig.
I bought a MCI for my conversion and find it a great coach. mines not complete if they ever are. I live in Hermiston and have used it to go to AZ last winter and it worked very well Jerry
Very pretty and very much S&S. The advantage to a bus is the commercial grade of all the components, the monaco won't hold up over the long term like a bus will. To give you an idea of the commercial grade of a bus, my air dryer has a service interval of every 300,000 miles, thats just for servicing it, thats longer than the life expectancy of the monaco. The problem with an S&S unit is they start to shake apart as they leave the factory, they are intended to be used for weekends now and then and for that purpose they work just fine, but like a lot of other things they have a determined life expectancy that isn't very long. A bus is designed to go from point A to point B and back, then do it again, over and over, all day long, every day, to be ran until a drivers shift is up, then ran again as the next driver puts in his shift, this continuous duty requires a unit that is built to standards far beyond what the S&S factories would even approach, another concideration that weighs heavily on me is what happens in the event of an accident. In a relatively minor incident that monaco would do what 99% of the other factory units would do, disintergrate., it's basically a shoebox on a set of rails, when the rails stop suddenly, the shoebox continues causing the unit to destroy itself, buses are structurally much more solid and designed around a completely different idea.
Quote from: cody on November 25, 2008, 11:24:17 AM
Very pretty and very much S&S. The advantage to a bus is the commercial grade of all the components, the monaco won't hold up over the long term like a bus will. To give you an idea of the commercial grade of a bus, my air dryer has a service interval of every 300,000 miles, thats just for servicing it, thats longer than the life expectancy of the monaco. The problem with an S&S unit is they start to shake apart as they leave the factory, they are intended to be used for weekends now and then and for that purpose they work just fine, but like a lot of other things they have a determined life expectancy that isn't very long. A bus is designed to go from point A to point B and back, then do it again, over and over, all day long, every day, to be ran until a drivers shift is up, then ran again as the next driver puts in his shift, this continuous duty requires a unit that is built to standards far beyond what the S&S factories would even approach, another concideration that weighs heavily on me is what happens in the event of an accident. In a relatively minor incident that monaco would do what 99% of the other factory units would do, disintergrate., it's basically a shoebox on a set of rails, when the rails stop suddenly, the shoebox continues causing the unit to destroy itself, buses are structurally much more solid and designed around a completely different idea.
great info as always. I wasn't sure as to where a monaco fell as far as a classicfication went. I without question want a bus conversion.
Quote from: RJ on November 25, 2008, 11:12:38 AM
Quote from: PDXGREENBUS on November 25, 2008, 08:12:27 AM
I want reliability and in the event it does have a breakdown want to be able to find a mechanic easily.
PDX -
Consider this: MCI dominates the charter and tour bus industry. Nearly every charter outfit in the country has shop technicians familiar with them. Whether or not they take in "outside work" is another issue, but in this slack economy, income from an outside repair is better than no income from the fleet sitting in the yard. Which leads to:
You (and every other busnut on this bbs, too, for that matter) need to get a copy of "The Bus Garage Index", published annually by Bus Ride magazine, one of the industry's trade journals. Lists every bus company in the country, with contact info. Well worth the $40 or so you'll spend for a copy, especially at Oh Dark Thirty. Available directly from the publisher @ www.busride.com. (I have no connection with them, other than knowledge of it based on my years of working in the industry, and my copy in the bookcase.)
Prevost is the leader in terms of conversion coach shells from the factory, but they also are pretty common in the tour bus industry, followed by Van Hools. VH's aren't used much for conversions, MCI & Prevost now dominate the market, but some charter outfits like them. Since they're imported from Europe, some parts may be an issue, just like BK's Setras or Brian's Dina.
Eagles dominated the entertainer coach industry for years, due to their torsilastic suspension. They tend to gently porpoise front to rear while running down the highway, as opposed to the side-to-side movement of an air suspended coach. Supposedly much more comfortable to sleep in while traveling at 70+ mph on the interstate between gigs - something most RV folk don't do, unless Mama wants to take a nap. (Of course it's different sleeping in a bunk along a wall as opposed to a big queen in the center of the back.) One caveat about the Eagle suspension, however: They are very sensitive to shock absorber condition. That gentle porpoising I mentioned earlier can literally buck the driver out of his seat if the highway undulations are severe and the shocks are bad - BTDT.
Prevost is now the coach of choice for most entertainer cars. For years, Prevost has mounted their air bellows for the suspension outboard, just inside the exterior skin, as opposed to inboard of the tires, like GM & MCI. Because of this, their vehicles tend to sway less than the others, especially MCI 8's & 9's. (The running joke in the industry when 8s & 9s were prevalent was that MCI's cornered on the rub rails. . .) GMCs, starting with the 4106, have hefty sway bars underneath to control the sway, and they work well. The point here is that the entertainer cars have switched to Prevost due to their ride at speed, but again, it's sort of a moot point for RV use.
Corrosion is an issue with all buses, not just Eagles, and it doesn't have to be from salt, either. Water in any form is a great solvent. . . even if it's just off the bus wash rack in Phoenix. Obviously, certain areas of the country are more prone than others, but you get my point.
Quick note: Starting with the 102C3 models, MCI raised the roof 3+ inches over previous models. So if headroom is an issue, a "C" or later doesn't require a roof raise. OTOH, if you're under six feet tall, a roof raise may be an unnecessary expense. The sloping floor of an MCI, btw, is really a non-issue, it's really not even noticeable, except for the short ramp in front. Most converters remove the ramp, a minor project. Another consideration - MCI drivers sit up almost at the same level as the passengers - a slight safety margin.
35-foot coaches can be driven almost anywhere, like a giant mini-van. 40-footers are also pretty maneuverable (and the most popular), but sometimes you cannot get into the older state parks and recreation areas. 45-footers, like John316 has, can be a challenge in campgrounds. Here in CA, they are even restricted from certain highways, and you have to get a special license to drive them if you live here. Something else to take into consideration.
Buy a coach already equipped with an automatic transmission. You and the family will be much happier in the long run.
Budget for 6 mpg, and you're actual will be pretty darned close to your budget, regardless of powertrain combo. (Obviously, if you want to make your coach exhaust smell like french fries from a veggie-oil fuel system, you'll need to make sure you've got a baggage bay available for processing.)
Speaking of powertrains:
The venerable 71-series may have the least power, but they're also virtually unbreakable, and far more forgiving than the 92-series. (At the transit agency I worked at for awhile, the 8V71's would go approximately 30% longer before overhaul compared to the 6V92TAs - and you cannot get a harsher environment for an engine than transit service.) The S-60's are the modern-day 6-71s - they'll literally run forever with decent care & feeding - better fuel mileage, too. The older MUI engines (Mechanical Unit Injector) will often get you home if there's a problem, whereas a DDEC parks you till it's fixed. However, like today's automobiles, the electronics on the diesels are far more reliable than they used to be.
Right down I-5 from you in Coburg, OR, is the home of Marathon Coach - the epitome of ostentatious rolling brothel interiors. Take a drive down and have a look around, there's always a few used units on their lot. Since Marathon specializes in snooty snobbery, their prices reflect that attitude. Look for the oldest coach on the lot, if it's not trashed and has a floorplan you can live with, offer them 1/3 of what they're asking for it and see what happens. . . it's a buyer's market right now, and you may be surprised. (But don't offer any more than half - that's too much for their "blue sky".)
I'm aware of a fellow who recently picked up an '89 Prevost XL with a Liberty Coach conversion that had been on the market for over a year at $150K. This fellow picked it up for $75K - half of what it was listed at - and it is gorgeous, inside and out. Point here is that this soft market means deals can be had, and don't be afraid to look at units in the $150 - $175K range.
The website leads kd5kfl gave you thru his Backflip link should provide hours of entertainment searching for a rig. . .
I've prattled on enough for now. If I can be of any further help, feel free to send me a pm, either here or to my private email, which is in my profile. I spent 25+ years in the industry, primarily in Operations Management and Training, so my perspective is slightly different than many busnuts on this and other forums. Whether or not you'd find that helpful is up to you.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
PS: The craigslist RV is a fiberglass & twigs S&S. Here are the most common "real bus chassis" manufacturers for conversions of highway coaches: GMC, MCI, Prevost, Eagle, Flxible, Setra, & Van Hool. Similar names for transit manufacturers, but most folk agree that transits aren't normally the best choice for RV conversions. Main exception being the GMC/TMC RTS. Most anything else claiming to be "bus-like" is a twig rig.
wow, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative post. That explains a ton and the insight into the pricing situation gives a whole new perspective on things.
Here is one that I found that I really like the interior layout of. Not too hot on the exterior but where I am planning a vinyl wrap isn't much of an issue. Any feedback on reputation of seller and or what a realistic price point might be on this rig?
http://www.bargainbusnews.com/Buses/626-1987PreovstLeMirageXL/
There is a 1990 Country Coach Preovst here in Lakeland FL for sale for under $50,000.
Jack
They sure seem to be proud of their buses.
Quote from: blue_goose on November 25, 2008, 02:46:55 PM
There is a 1990 Country Coach Preovst here in Lakeland FL for sale for under $50,000.
Jack
Is this it?
http://www.rvee.com/viewfull.asp?ID=2621539&FromSearch=No
PDX,
I wanted to clarify something that RJ said. If you get a C (I'm not positive that the C's are truss, but I do know that a DL3 is truss) or later, it will have a truss design. Meaning, the skin is not essential to the frame of the bus. I could go out to our DL3, and remove the skin, then drive it for as long as I want (but that is entirely out of the question with our brand new paint job ;D ;D ;D).
Otherwise, RJ's post was right on. I hope he types quickly!!! ;) If he doesn't I could see a lot of hard spent typing. ;D ;D Good work RJ, and thanks for the info!!!
Make sure that you tell us what bus you purchase...when you do. ;D
God bless,
John
Quote from: John316 on November 25, 2008, 04:28:13 PM
PDX,
I wanted to clarify something that RJ said. If you get a C (I'm not positive that the C's are truss, but I do know that a DL3 is truss) or later, it will have a truss design. Meaning, the skin is not essential to the frame of the bus. I could go out to our DL3, and remove the skin, then drive it for as long as I want (but that is entirely out of the question with our brand new paint job ;D ;D ;D).
Otherwise, RJ's post was right on. I hope he types quickly!!! ;) If he doesn't I could see a lot of hard spent typing. ;D ;D Good work RJ, and thanks for the info!!!
Make sure that you tell us what bus you purchase...when you do. ;D
God bless,
John
thanks for the clarification John. I am going to make sure that I get plenty of input from you guys prior to pulling the trigger. I dont want to make any unnecessary mistakes if at all possible.
PDX,
I don't know what you schedule looks like after Christmas, but if you have some free time you may want to hop into a plane and fly to Tampa, rent a car and show up at Jack Conrads shindig.
There should be about 150 or more conversions and most people are more than happy to show them off.
My wife and I flew down there in '04 just to get ideas because we were planning to do one from a shell, and we ended up buying a bus.
Jim
Quote from: JimC on November 25, 2008, 07:15:45 PM
PDX,
I don't know what you schedule looks like after Christmas, but if you have some free time you may want to hop into a plane and fly to Tampa, rent a car and show up at Jack Conrads shindig.
There should be about 150 or more conversions and most people are more than happy to show them off.
My wife and I flew down there in '04 just to get ideas because we were planning to do one from a shell, and we ended up buying a bus.
Jim
That is not a half bad idea at all you have there. Do you have any more details on the event?
Quote from: PDXGREENBUS on November 25, 2008, 09:12:39 PM
That is not a half bad idea at all you have there. Do you have any more details on the event?
PDX -Ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/24541.html?1226410453
or
Search this bbs for "Bussin' 2009 Starts Today"
FWIW & HTH. . .
:)
PS: Just checked Southwest - they've got a RT from PDX > Tampa for $640, RT PDX > MCO (Orlando) for $750. Using Yahoo Fare Chaser, I found $688 RT PDX > MCO or $581 RT PDX > TPA Flights checked for 12/27 > 01/04 travel dates (Sat stay-over)
Quote from: John316 on November 25, 2008, 04:28:13 PM
I wanted to clarify something that RJ said. If you get a C (I'm not positive that the C's are truss, but I do know that a DL3 is truss) or later, it will have a truss design. Meaning, the skin is not essential to the frame of the bus. I could go out to our DL3, and remove the skin, then drive it for as long as I want
Otherwise, RJ's post was right on. I hope he types quickly!!! If he doesn't I could see a lot of hard spent typing. Good work RJ, and thanks for the info!!!
John -I type about 60 wpm, give or take a little. That little ditty took me about 15 - 20 minutes to bang out in WordPerfect, then it was cut 'n pasted to the board. And thank you for your kind words, they're appreciated.
I'm not sure either when MCI changed over to the truss design, whether it was with the "C" or "D" models. A quick phone call to MCI Tech Support could get that question answered.
(
PDX - MCI makes the "D" model in two versions, 40 and 45 foot. The "L" in the model designates the longer version.)
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
RJ,
Good point about the forty v forty-five foot D's. Thanks for the clarification. I think that if one was to go with a forty foot D, it would be better to go with a C, since they are generally cheaper.
I type a little slower than you do. I'm at fifty wpm, now. Practice makes perfect ;D.
God bless,
John
As far as typing goes, I can hit a solid 30MPM (mistakes per minute) and thats with one finger tied behind my back lol, Jacks rally is an excellent idea, you'll find conversions of every kind of bus from old to new, eagles, mci's, prevo, flx's and every other kind that was ever made. Lots of tire kicking and friendly people that'll show you around their buses, any questions are not only answered but the proof will be right in front of you, lots of ideas about layouts, floorplans, colors, graphics, etc, buses in all stages of semi completion. People will be more than happy to aswer questions and lie about their fuel mileage lol.
PDX; never rule out the BlueBird Express (40 or 45 ft) it is a great bus not hard to work on parts are cheap a very reliable bus with baggage bays has a modern powertrain plus they look great and they all American made in Georgia.Check the guy at Northwest Bus sales he has them from time to time. www.nwbus.com have a great day
Here is one i found in NY this morning.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/rvs/931112510.html
PDX -
Hard to tell from the small photo, but by the rear cap design on that NY Eagle, it looks like it might have been one that belonged to NJ Transit. Call the owner and find out. If so, then call Luke at US Coach in NJ and ask him about what made the NJT Eagles different than the standard bird of the same era. I can't remember what they did differently, but I know it was significant, some of which bled over into subsequent production. Luke's number is 1-888-262-2434, regular business hours M-F.
If something in 35-foot would work for you, take a look at this, then pm me for more info, as I recently took a look at it myself:
http://www.rv-coach.com/current_category.53/Classified.32901/classified_detail.html
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: PDXGREENBUS on November 26, 2008, 09:37:52 AM
Here is one i found in NY this morning.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/rvs/931112510.html
I posted bigger pictures of this one on the Eagle forum. It is not mine but I got the owner to send me bigger pictures to post in his ad there. It looks like a nice bus. This is the same model I have.
http://www.eaglesinternational.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=75
Quote from: John316 on November 25, 2008, 04:28:13 PM
PDX,
I wanted to clarify something that RJ said. If you get a C (I'm not positive that the C's are truss, but I do know that a DL3 is truss) or later, it will have a truss design. Meaning, the skin is not essential to the frame of the bus. I could go out to our DL3, and remove the skin, then drive it for as long as I want (but that is entirely out of the question with our brand new paint job ;D ;D ;D).
God bless,
John
You can do that with an Eagle too! And I can prove it! ;D
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frts-bus.com%2Feagle20%2F4.jpg&hash=f7a6e66d430718fbcfcccc6b886e50aea2cffcbb) (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frts-bus.com%2Feagle20%2F5.jpg&hash=db609c60371c4dada0159de83c736828437bd066)
PDX,and RJ that is a NJ AE 20 they are built with cor-ten steel (no rust issues)have a level floor from front to back, stainless siding and pantograph doors on the bays with other features a great bus it 40Lx8W.Like Dale said he has more photos on the Eagle web with more interior shots good luck
All I know is that you guys down in the states are very privileged to have so many buses to chose from for some very reasonable prices. Wish we could bring them across our border, instead of paying through the nose for everything. We end up driving across and buying what we need and haul it home for our conversion. Dam Canadian gov't, again!! Lots of opportunity down there! I would have definitly bought a completed coach if I had lived down there.
Have fun!
Quote from: PDXGREENBUS on November 25, 2008, 03:10:12 PM
Quote from: blue_goose on November 25, 2008, 02:46:55 PM
There is a 1990 Country Coach Preovst here in Lakeland FL for sale for under $50,000.
Jack
Is this it?
http://www.rvee.com/viewfull.asp?ID=2621539&FromSearch=No
No that one is gone, they do have another one.
I love my NJT AE-20! It has a lot of the stuff that I wanted to put on the 10 before I found this one. Clifford already mentioned the Cor-Ten steel to keep it from rusting, level floors, stainless, and pantograph doors.
In addition to that, the driver area is much higher than stock which brings it closer to floor level. Lots of Eagle owners make 'high drivers' but the AE 20 is sort of a factory high driver although not totally even with the passenger floor. We get a 748 trans instead of a 740. Comes standard with a hydraulic fan setup and power steering. Some consider it a good thing and some consider it a bad thing, but the AE-20 is completely wired with white wires with black numbers on them. The good part is that the number appears every couple of feet. The bad part is that when you look at a bundle of wires, they all look the same at first glance! From what I am told, the fuel tank is 165 instead of 125 on standard Eagles.
What else? Oh yeah! All AE 20s as far as I know came with 24.5 Alcoas.
A few bad things that are easy to change or live with. The fuel filler is only on the curb side instead of on both sides like most Eagles. No tach or fuel gauge. Have to pull the huge A/C unit unless it has already been done. 3.73 rear gear could stand to be a little taller.
That's about it. Did I mention that I love my bus?
I don't know Luke at USCoach, but the best source for Eagle 20 info (especially NJTs) that I know of is Norris at Jefferson Truck Parts in OKC. He was around when they were being built and can tell you anything you want to know. 800-813-9367
Both Norris and Silver Eagle Manufacturing have manuals for these buses. http://www.silvereaglebus.com/
PDX,
I am a little biased, but I love our DL3. I am posting one of my favorite pics of the bus. It was taken on the beach of Lake Erie, at sunset. It was too bad that the bus was dirty, but oh well.
God bless,
John
Beautiful!
My thoughts exactly. Beautiful!
Gorgeous Picture John! What a beautiful world we live in! WOW! ;)
Paul
Beautiful picture! Bus ain't too bad neither LOL ;D
John316...Glorious photo! Is that at very early sunrise? About dirty coach....it shows you are traveling & enjoying the adventure. A clean coach on this once a life time sun setting are usually not common. Love your coach. It a master piece photo to hang around.
Quote from: RJ on November 26, 2008, 10:15:58 AM
PDX -
Hard to tell from the small photo, but by the rear cap design on that NY Eagle, it looks like it might have been one that belonged to NJ Transit. Call the owner and find out. If so, then call Luke at US Coach in NJ and ask him about what made the NJT Eagles different than the standard bird of the same era. I can't remember what they did differently, but I know it was significant, some of which bled over into subsequent production. Luke's number is 1-888-262-2434, regular business hours M-F.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I have seen one of NTJ Eagle that I made a stainless steel door that is similar as MCI-8,9s to replace the leaking/whistling double folding door. That rear top contained bus air system. Eagle manufacturer use every available space above the engine compartment and need ladder or better yet an scaffold to service it. A large air tank just for the air starter in the rear bay to take up the space.
Never forget for each time driver hit the starter button.....SSS...bam...RRRRRRrrrruning. Even with my hear aid off in bed room...I know he hit the starter button...LOL
And like what Songman already said about white wires and the rest.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
The NJ model 20 was the only model 20 with white wires , the AC mounted in the rear and air starters Eagle loved all the changes NJ made to the 20 I was told years ago they had 20+ change orders for that bus for big bucks each. FWIW the Air Force is starting to sell their model 20's with only about 250,000 miles Good Luck
Someone...somewhere ? ? mention about when the Eagle change rear end with and without drop box.
Here the link about Eagle's history in a nut shell (http://www.busexplorer.com/NABus/EagleText.html)
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
BTW...thanks to others input to help the future coach buyers and others inquirewanttolearnmore bus nuts.
Quote from: Sojourner on November 27, 2008, 03:06:03 PM
I have seen one of NTJ Eagle that I made a stainless steel door that is similar as MCI-8,9s to replace the leaking/whistling double folding door.
Gerald, you got my attention with this line. I am trying to find matching stainless to make my one piece door and having no luck. I'd be interested to hear more about the door you made and if you can help me find matching stainless.