Forgive my ignorance. I moved to California where I need to pass a special test to drive my 45 foot Eagle. The booklet says they inspector will ask about chains, so I need to get some. Did not need any in Texas. From what I can tell from older posts, chains on the outer duals are a necessity. My question is, do people also put chains on the steer tires or tags?
One other bit of help......is there a particular type of chain that can be stored compactly and not too hard to put on?
The official CA chain requirements: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf)
The general answer is that driving wheels should receive chains, whichever wheels those are. Yes, you can choose to install chains on unpowered steer tires to improve steering if clearances permit, but highways tend to get closed before they get THAT bad anyway. People who actually live in such climates will usually install snow tires for the season and only add chains if they get stuck or are going off-road.
Thanks Nusa, that pdf had not turned up in my searches.
It looks like California wants both the inner and outer duals chained "if possible". Is that really hard to do?
It also looks like California does not like cable chains. Does that make it even harder to install chains on the duals?
If you go to a shop and have them installed, you may get 3 railers on your bus. I don't know how you would get them off. I would go more with the "it is not possible" as you will have to lay under the bus for some time and thats not very safe. You will probably freeze or get ran over before you can get them on/off and they will have to be retightened before you go 1/8 mile or they will beat your bus all up. Baling wire is mandatory to tie down the loose ends.
Singles are doable. Generally you should find a runup block that will raise the bus enough that the outside dual is off the ground high enough to get the chain under the tire and hooked on both ends. The ends must be wired down and the chains retightened after about 1/8 mile or they will destroy your undercarriage and can rip large holes in air suspensions.
If you are not experienced with snow and ice, don't run your bus, beat the storm or wait it out in warm weather, then head out.
Bus steer axels are very prone to sliding sideways, even when sitting still on ice, (you are better off moving). Steer axles are hard to keep pointed into the grade under all braking also, and if you don't have a couple million miles of snow and ice experience, you will have a real expensive learning curve. If it is so bad that you really need chains on your bus, you probably will have alot better chance of staying on the road with a set on the steer axel as well as the drivers. When all chained up, you should probably not drive more than 10 MPH. The chains should just be used to get you to a safe place to wait out the storm unless you have alot of experience and a big set of balls.
I run between Seattle and Los Angeles a couple times a winter. The law says I have to carry chains because I'm over a certain weight, so I do. In 15 years and 2 Eagles, I have been in some tough spots, but never yet hung the iron. (Thanks Bridgestone M726). Twice I have been caught on Ashland just as the storm got bad and made it off. Last year I hit it bad at Shasta and stayed in about the first 3 inches of hard snow (run the fresh stuff in the hammer lane and stay off the packed stuff in the slow lane if you can), for 60 miles and then outran the storm before I hit Ashland. 30 minutes later and I would have parked for 2 days and came very close to anyway.
I get good info from Nextel and the CB and make my decisions on that info. Its better to wait the storm out before you get to the mountains than in the mountains. No water freezing issues and staying warm even if you are prepared. My furnace ducts to the holding tank bay but why get into a bad spot if you can avoid it.
Regarding your chain question. I have found that the cable chains are very nice. They are light store flat, and aren't as hard on your tires (they will wear out faster than real chains).
FWIW
God bless,
John
I carry chains, but I have no intentions of ever putting them on :o. I couldn't agree with NJT5573 more, use the CB and watch the local weather channels. If you can't stay safely ahead of a storm, wait it out! Having grown up in Minnesota, I'm not intimidated by snow and ice, but pickups and busses are worlds apart. My $.0002 worth. Goodluck and congrats on your move. Will & Wife
Puttting chains on the steer tires would be something you would do if you were making a living at driving. I from MT and now live in northern NV. I drive fifty plus miles to work and if you need to put chains on the front of your bus it might be time to pull over and wait till things get better.
Just my thoughts John
I live in snow country, and if the going got tough I'd pull over and wait it out. The secret is "must carry chains past this point" if you get to a chain up point pull over and have a coffee until the snow plow goes past. We aren't on a time scheduled run so when the going get tough the smart have a nap....
If you plan on using your rig in potential chain weather, that is one thing. If you never plan to get close to that (me) and are not subject to follow up inspections, I would borrow a set for the inspection. I can find better lighter things I might use to save the space for.
Even if I got caught in an unexpected storm, I would be hard pressed to chain up. I would wait it out if at all possible. Putting chains on can be a wet, dangerous way to tear up the bus.
Good luck
Don 4107
When I moved to Calif. from Nebraska, I saw chain control, WOW!!! I thought they must have a lot of snow up there. Got up there and they are chaining up for slush, but when I saw the drivers, I knew immediatly why the chain patrols were put up. They made the Keystone cop chases look boring. So a good reason I found to avoid driving in the snow, was not my driving so much as I was scared of the others, you can not control them.....
Ray D
When I drove cross country truck, I had to carry cable chains by law. In the 21 years and 1.3 million miles of driving, I NEVER had to hang one pound of chains on my truck. My theory was simple-if they required chains, I either changed my route or sat it out. Wyoming has the right theory-if it gets bad enough for chains, they shut down the road. I once had to wait 2 nights for the storm to pass. Most other times when the snow started getting bad, just got off the road and waited to the next day and got back on the road at a leisurely 10am when the snow was all gone. Worked every time. I hated snow so much, I only worked 9 months a year and took Dec 15 - Mar 15 off every year. The best way to avoid having to put on chains, is not to go into snow country in snow season. Plus you bus will like you for it, since you'll also avoid running through salted roads-translated-rust! Good Luck, TomC
On a trip from Vancouver to LA in wintewr a few years ago I had to chain up going over the Sykious in S. Oregon/N. California. It was quite painless. I carried a large piece of carboard to lay on and had losts of bungee cords to tie up loose ends. I als had dirty cloths so wasn't worried about dirt,water etc. At the same time I also had the pleasure of putting chains on the truck my wife was driving towing a horse trailer. It also has duals(although somewhat smaller). And both my wife and myself felt immensely safer with them on.
The secret to putting on chains is to PRACTICE at home BEFORE you need them. If you know how you want to do it makes it a lot easier when the time comes. And while I don't look foreward to chaining up I not afraid to.
Fred Mc.
I drive a hockey team bus all winter in all weather in British Columbia and Washington. The only reason not to go is if the highway is closed. The first thing you need is the best snow tires you can get for the drives. I have never used the chains. A bus has a lot of weight on the drives and a lot better traction than a semi. I often pass semis chaining up or spun out on the hill. If it gets really slippery, lift the tags. That has gotten me going many times. Actually, on the 102D3 I drive, the tags don't lift, I just take the air out of the tag's air bags: that adds a lot of weight onto the drives. If you're going to drive in winter, get the best winter tires there is.
JC
Michelin XDN2's are great tires for snow. Plus they ride nicely. Good Luck, TomC
By the time you chain up , change your clothes, warm up etc. Then drive over the mountain or through the storm and repeat this procedure you'll be ready for a nap. Then once you start out again all those that waited it out at the local pub will have passed you or be very close to where you are anyway. My .02 cents worth. over 3 million miles in the US and Canada commercially.
Have fun
Quote from: basil on November 03, 2008, 01:41:19 PM
Forgive my ignorance. I moved to California where I need to pass a special test to drive my 45 foot Eagle. The booklet says they inspector will ask about chains, so I need to get some. Did not need any in Texas. From what I can tell from older posts, chains on the outer duals are a necessity. My question is, do people also put chains on the steer tires or tags?
One other bit of help......is there a particular type of chain that can be stored compactly and not too hard to put on?
Basil -First: You're applying for a NON-COMMERCIAL Class B license for you to drive your 45-footer. Make sure EVERYONE at the DMV counter understands that request. If you get a technician who doesn't, ask them to ask for help. The procedures and requirements are slightly different, and it's not that common a request, so don't be surprised if you get funny looks. Same goes for the pre-trip and skills test examiner, when you get to that point. (Understand, too, that if you fail the pre-trip inspection part of your skills test, you have to start all over again - and that includes paying the fees!) Your written exams, btw, will also cover items in the RV handbook the DMV publishes: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648.pdf
Second:
"The booklet says they inspector will ask about chains, so I need to get some." HOLD ON A MINUTE!! Re-read what it says in the commercial handbook, in the pre-trip inspection section on page 116. Tire chains are considered "Optional Emergency Equipment". The key word here is
optional. If you don't live in an area of CA where there's snow on a regular basis, you don't need to have them on board. If you live in Shasta or Truckee, well, that's a different story, and you should have them. (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/comlhdbk/comlhdbk.pdf)
Third: You only have to chain the
outside drive axle tire on a bus in CA. Why? Because it is virtually impossible, with the limited body clearance, to hang chains over/around/on the inside dual. CalTrans and the CHP intelligently (for a change!) recognize this, so that's all the chain control folk will look for. You do not have to chain the steer and/or tag axle.
Fourth: As somebody else already mentioned, it's far easier to practice hanging chains on your vehicle in a dry parking lot on a nice day than at Oh Dark Thirty when it's 20
o outside with blowing snow. BTDT! Back in the day, I could hang chains on a bus faster than I could hang them on my car (under 10 minutes) - but it took practice beforehand to learn how to do it efficiently.
Fifth: If you insist on spending $$$ to have a set of chains for your coach, you will not find them at your local AutoZone. You'll have to get them from NAPA or another outfit that specializes in chains for the big rig guys. They are NOT cheap - expect to pay over $100 or so for a set. The best, IMHO, are the V-bar style with cams - cable chains are a PITA on a bus. Do a google search for "truck tire chains with cams". The benefit to cam-style is that they are easy to install, easy to tighten down, and easy to bungee in such a way that the cams don't come loose. Your pretty bus won't look that way for long if a chain comes loose or a cross-bar breaks!
Sixth: Storing these critters boils down into two categories - for seasonal use, and for off-season. They are big, so compact storage is sort of an oxymoron in this case. For off-season, unless you're full-timing, keep 'em in the garage or storage unit. For seasonal use, keep them "ready to hang" - one on each side in the rear baggage bin, along with that side's bungees. "Ready to Hang" means that you've taken the time, where it's dry, to lay the chain out alongside your coach, made sure all the kinks are out of the entire length, that the cross-links are on the correct side for draping, and that the cams face outward. Once you've got them all sorted out, you gather them up neatly by stretching your arms out as far as possible, then, with thumbs above and fingers below the cross-links, bring your arms together, bunching the chain up into a neat pile and setting it carefully into a Rubbermaid or similar plastic tub, one that's about the same size you use for washing dishes. (You'll need two tubs - one per side.) Now, when you get to the chain control, all you have to do is carefully pick up the bunched chain and drape it over the tire, hook it loosely on the front side first, then the back side, take the slack out of the front hook, tighten down the cams, bungee them closed, and away you go. When you can pull the chains off, dump them & the bungees back into the tub, so the melting snow won't get all over everything. At your earliest convenience, pull them out of the tubs, let them all dry, prep and re-bunch for the next time.
Seventh: The main reason CalTrans and the CHP require chains is not necessarily because of the snow on the ground, or the road conditions - it's to SLOW DOWN the pesky four-wheelers who've only driven in the flatlands and coastal climates, and have NO CLUE how to drive under these conditions. TIP: Drive like you've got a raw egg strapped to the bottom of your right shoe - and DON'T BREAK THE EGG!!!
Eighth: Whatever your decision about chains, I'd also suggest that you park it for the duration, until the roads are cleared and the chain controls are lifted.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
My chains live carefully draped into 5 gallon Home Depot buckets. The buckets will fit under the bunk in a Freightliner, and anywhere I like in the MC8.
Chains are your best friend when caught in the snow covered off camber parking lot, the soft lawn after a snow fall, when some other nitwits force you to stop on a grade you wouldn't have done so voluntarily.
Or you decide to use the bus mid winter and have to get it through the uncleared yard...see avatar...
As noted earlier, the biggest threat out there is not our equipment, skill or decision making, it's the witless others and their attempts at driving.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I do not think it is a good ideal to put chains on you bus but if I lived in a state that I needed them they make auto chains that all you have to do is flip a switch and they work very well and yes they make them for a bus cost is 1700.00 but one broken link you will loose more than that for body work on your bus
Quote from: jr6715 on November 05, 2008, 03:52:26 AM
I do not think it is a good ideal to put chains on you bus but if I lived in a state that I needed them they make auto chains that all you have to do is flip a switch and they work very well and yes they make them for a bus cost is 1700.00 but one broken link you will loose more than that for body work on your bus
JR -The auto chains you're talking about are not recommended for buses with air suspension. 90% of the applications on buses that I've seen have been on front engined, dog-nosed skoolies, where there is really no weight on the drivers (compared to a pusher), and there is tons of ground clearance, compared to a highway coach. But they do work. . .
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)