Hi all!
I'm a newbe to busing, but I'm starting my search early. Currenlty I'm stationed overseas in Okinawa Japan, Kadena Air Base to be exact. Shortly I'll be on my way to Germany. Four years after that I'll be back state side for retirement.
My wife and I have been looking and researching different models of buses for conversion. We've also, signed up for different forums to find owners with info on the pros and con's of owning a conversion bus. I like the way Eagles look, but I like the way MCI's are made.
We have two boys and by the time I'm retired one will be 18 yrs old and the other will be 11yrs old. Currently they're 11 and 4, all boy too! We've seen some really cheap shells and some really high $$ full conversions. Remember I work for uncle sam, is a bus conversion something my $45K salary can handle?
What bus do you all suggest and why?
What all would you suggest I do myself and what to contract out?
How long does a conversion DIY normally take?
Overall, what is the cost of a normal DIY conversion, all said and done? That is if you're willing to share the $$ info.
Thanks for your time and comments,
New2Busin......a.k.a. Ben
Ben -
Welcome aboard, and thanks for your service. My son is USAF - stationed at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany.
The simplest answer to your question: It depends.
Not a lot of help, eh? But it really does depend on a lot of variables.
Humor aside, the average conversion takes approximately 3,000 man-hours and over $80K worth of "stuff" above the shell's cost to complete. Not including any mechanical stuff on the shell itself to make it roadworthy. This includes plumbing, heating, air conditioning, insulation, electrical, woodworking, flooring, carpeting, paint and a whole lot more. What are your strengths in these areas?
With the market in it's current condition, you'd be far, far better off finding one that's already been converted and whose interior comes very close to your needs, so that all you'd need to do is a little remodeling, rather than full-blown converting. I know a gentleman who recently had his coach up for sale at $49K - he ended up selling it for $23K, less than half his asking price. Last summer at the big bus rally in OR, a fellow there had a mid-1990's model Prevost Royal conversion that he'd just bought from the original owner for $75K, down from the $200K asking price. Take your time and shop around, the deals are out there.
Another thing to consider - with the time frame you mentioned, your oldest will be at that point where he easily could be leaving the nest, with your little one not far behind. You need to take that into account when thinking about your intended usage.
To answer some more of your generic questions, try finding a copy of Larry Plachno's "Beginner's Guide to Converted Coaches". Altho slightly dated, he covers a LOT of material newbies often don't take into consideration when getting involved with this crazy hobby. The few bucks spent on a copy could save you thousands in a mistake. It's easy to buy a bus. . . but a whole lot harder to sell a mistake!
Others will chime in with their perspective, consider all of it part of "doing your pre-purchase homework!"
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
It is not a bad idea to start your planning early. Reading boards like this can give you a lot of information and help you decide what your preferences will be for engine, transmission, model, materials, floor plan etc. One thing you will have to decide/clarify is how you are going to use it. Is it a weekender or for living in? Will you mainly be using campgrounds or dry camping? Have you RV'd before? If not you might want to rent one a bit to see how you like it. Do you want to convert your own bus for the fun of it, or do you want to save money? Buying a converted bus is probably cheaper than doing it yourself, but who knows what will be in five years.
Ben, when buying a bus buy the lastest model you can afford with a modern engine and transmissions like the 60s Detroit engine and the Allison B500 transmission they are in the $30,000 range now and getting cheaper.
good luck
Four years in Germany before coming home? Without doubt the best buses in the world are built in Germany, and the prices there for an older model will be dirt cheap too. You've got four years to select the right bus (and a stash of spare parts if that worries you), and organise it's transport to the States - maybe through a service personnal vehicle re-patriation scheme? It'd be a shame not to at least investigate the possibility of owning a Mercedes / Neoplan / Van Hool / Setra / MAN / Drogmoller etc rather than an MCI or Eagle
Jeremy
Hi Ben,
Welcome!
Boy, I remember when I was at your stage... Lots of fun ahead of ya!
Enjoy
Nick-
May be to soon for you but on the Eagles board there is a sharp looking model 20 for sale ,I am told there are no rust issues with the model 20 have a great day
Thanks all....great advice!
RJ....that's to weird, I'm going to Spangdahlem AB...wow...small world. What does your son do?
Back on topic...
My uncle owns an MCI, older model, but he was on a "Shoe string" budget. My family took me camping a LOT when I was younger and with my two boys I was hoping that we could do that as well. In the mean time, we settle for the tent outings. My wife however, she's not to keen on "Roughing" it. Her idea of roughing it is hotwater, toilet paper with a china seat...LOL!
OK, so the numbers are out, if I would say my cap of a "already" converted bus, I'd have to say $75K. Now keep in mind that when we get back the wife wants to buy a small home. 3 bedroom, 2 bath home....somewhere around 1200 sq ft. So with the market, we'll just have to see how far this plan goes.
Now on the other hand, from what little research I've concluded so far, I'm very handy and smart Mechanic. Heavens sake I defend the US day to day...so that should say something yeah? LOL...Joking aside, I'm a mechanic in the Air Force...no carpenter by anymeans. With a little hard work and help...not to mention funds and time, if I did decide to do a conversion...I figured on doing what I could handle and contract or call for help on the other stuff. That's what this board is all about right, or am I way off?
Now with the type family I have, they'll lend a hand, and I'm sure my neighbor Songman would come by when he's back on the east coast...A few bus-nutz and some adult beverages always tends to bring things into perspective...yeah?
But hey, we're still talking 7 yrs from now...I'll just let the piggy bank grow and see where we're at....but I'll stay in touch. BTW...I do work on 6v92 DDEC II & III's...pretty smart in that area, and if I don't have the answer....I'm sure I can get it.
Smooth riding folks,
Ben
Given your budget, I would say you will be able to get a very nice already converted coach for well under that and have some budget left to remodel. But if you want the experience of DIY (it is very rewarding), as long as you do the work yourself and watch for bargains (get as much as you can from Bontragers), you can do a very comfortable conversion for much less than $80K. It won't be "grand", but nice and with many comfort features. And in 7 years, if you are still wanting MCI, who knows, maybe some of the 4500's will be coming down into range.
It sounds like you already have the skills that can save you a lot of money. With the mechanical aptitudes you seem to have, I am sure you could quickly learn the rest of the skills to do all the work yourself. This forum community is a huge help, both with advice/info and with a helping hand when possible. And before long we will have the bus conversion wiki online making it easy to find information. So hang close, spend time reading the forum and participating in it. Get to know the folks here. In seven years you will be an expert in bus conversion.
4-1/2 years ago we bought one that was already converted and I can say we have never regretted doing it that way. Don't worry - there will still be LOTS to do - you'll more than get your fill of working on it, whether you like cabinetry or plumbing or mechanical - there will be no shortage of "stuff" to do. The advantage of buying on that is already substantially finished is that you can start using it immediately.
I agree Bob. A preconverted coach can still leave you lots of opportunities for DIY.
Shameless plug for the wiki project:
Oh and Ben, if you set out reading the forum anyway for learning, you could help the wiki project by picking a section from the list here:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=9014.0
and let me know the section. Then move through the threads as described in that post and note the threads that have "jewels of knowledge". Those that are doing it agree, it is amazing the things you learn while reading through the "lost threads".
That is what the wiki is all about, making it easy for everyone to find the information.
I'll sell you a nice partially converted super white hot rod of a bus for a lot less!!!!!!! Just quit looking! Though a newer bus you may think would be better for you....an OLDER bus is something to learn on so you don't mess up a newer bus:) All SERIOUSNESS aside, 45k should get you a nice roller. But do you have 45 k for the bus and another 20-25k for conversion? or 45k total? If so a partially converted coach can save a lot of time, effort, and money, if it was done right....as ours was:) You just have to look at your talents and what your talents can't do for you, friends or your wallet will have to do. Water tanks, plumbing, electrical, inverters, generators, batteries, windows, ac, awnings, flooring, walls, insulation, leveling systems, engine maintenance, beer drinking, beer drinking, beer drinking, therapy, beer drinking....all the fun stuff leads to more fun. Just have to weigh all you consideables. Buying a bus now could save you money 4 years from now when it becomes to expansive to fly and busses sky rocket in price. How did I do? Busses are fun, do take a lot of time which some of us need more of lately, but perfect for young kids in your future positions.
Germany, 4 yrs, want bus, hmmmm .....................
Sounds too good to be true to me! If it were me I'd find a SETRA right there in Germany and buy it and start building it NOW! Then go ahead and use it for camping/exploring the part of the world your in! Then once ready to come back state side have Uncle Sam bring it home for you! Shoot you'd have the coolest thing on base and a sharp bus when you bring it home! I'll bet your buddies there on base would even jump in and help convert it! FWIW ;D BK ;D
Shoot if nothing else buy one for me and I'll meet ya with an MCI trade when ya get home! ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on October 28, 2008, 02:33:25 PM
Germany, 4 yrs, want bus, hmmmm .....................
Sounds too good to be true to me! If it were me I'd find a SETRA right there in Germany and buy it and start building it NOW! Then go ahead and use it for camping/exploring the part of the world your in! Then once ready to come back state side have Uncle Sam bring it home for you! Shoot you'd have the coolest thing on base and a sharp bus when you bring it home! I'll bet your buddies there on base would even jump in and help convert it! FWIW ;D BK ;D
Shoot if nothing else buy one for me and I'll meet ya with an MCI trade when ya get home! ;D
Knuckle,
Dang, them serta's look like a High dollar bus! We'll have to look into what they go for over there, the $ is week against the Euro...but I'll keep you in the loop, just incase you do want one.
Ben
Hello and welcome Ben.
Look me up on the USAF Global and email me. I've got lots of info I can share with you. Find "Passer" at SJAFB - you know the rest..... ;D
I'm at VM here at Seymour!
NUCKLE? hehe
One of the many things wrong with buying an european bus is a good parts supply stateside, I would really second think about that problem. Some european buses parts have to be ordered from overseas and the resale value is not as good as a MCI or eagle here stateside..
A fellow already overseas with a plan, will have the contacts in place to forward the required bits and pieces, and will have the foreign coach up to snuff on its home turf before it gets shipped home.
No easy parts for a 4501, and they were made here....?
Novelty has its price. With planning and luck, it is achievable.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: BJ on October 28, 2008, 08:35:55 PM
One of the many things wrong with buying an European bus is a good parts supply stateside, I would really second think about that problem. Some European buses parts have to be ordered from overseas and the resale value is not as good as a MCI or eagle here stateside..
I can see that being an issue, case in point: Broken down along side the road...having to wait 7 to 14 days to get parts. Well known to me being in Japan and wanting American made parts for my Harley-Davidson Road King. Even if they do have a Stealership here, not paying 4x's the $$'s for less in the states...fat man's gotta eat you know.
Us GI's that would die for our country don't have "Disposeable Income"...just the benefits and a little $$ they do pay, and the patriotism that goes along with it. So picking one up at a premium price is ideal and having it made in the US is another concern of mine. Our economy is in shambles now due to outsourcing...and the like. OK...going in the wrong direction here...LOL!!!
I'm sure I'm set on MCI with the majority of the frame to be stainless steal. From this point it's the decision of "Turn Key" or "DIY Conversion"
Thanks for the inputs so far...keep'm coming...
Ben
Ben, I spent 7 years on the rock. I was a air crew member in base flight at kadena. I can assume that the day of maids for 2.50 a month are gone. I would think that having a mci on the rock would be a blast. Perhaps with a lot of railroad iron for bumpers You could teach native drivers road manners? I am assuming that traffic is still like bumper cars! Thanks for serving and hope that You find the special bus. You have come to the right place to learn about the ins and outs of the bus hobby. I certainly wish that I would have known about the board before I got involved. Good luck and stay off of BC street. John
Thanks John,
Yeah to say the least, prices are a bit higher these days. Moma-san's run about $50 a day now, definite mark up. Right now the exchange rate is 90 Yen to the Dollar. I don't think I'll have a bus over here, for many reasons: 1. Even stainless steal can't withstand this harsh corrosive environment, 2. No enough room even on the biggest of roads..LOL! So it's a for sure wait till I get back to the states...just a little head of the game, that's normal for a guy like me, want to be sure about what I'm getting myself into. Above all, thank you sir for serving as well!
Regards,
Ben
If you're so into stainless, don't rule out Prevosts. Lots of good older Prevosts looking for homes also. And when you call ahead to make reservations in a park and they ask what you have, you don't have to make a long explanation. Everyone knows what a Prevost is-kinda like Hogs LOL ;D
Thanks for serving. There are a lot of vets on this board even though it's not a requirment of being a Busnut. My orders to Okinawa (Army) were changed at the last minute, but that was many many years ago. Uncle Sam needed me elsewhere. But that's another story and not in this topic. Welcome and goodluck, Will & Wife